Getting what you want is only the beginning. Whether you're building a business or creating a different future, meaningful change often reveals challenges you never anticipated. Dr. J.J. Peterson talks with Kelly Lyndgaard, founder of Unshattered, about the lessons she's learned building an organization that supports women in addiction recovery. Their conversation explores the importance of questioning assumptions, leading with humility and determination, and recognizing that even positive change can involve loss.
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Knowing what you want to accomplish and knowing how to accomplish it are two very different things. Whether you're building a business, leading an organization, or making a major life change, meaningful progress often requires questioning your assumptions, developing new skills, and accepting challenges you never anticipated.
Kelly Lyndgaard learned this firsthand when she founded Unshattered, a nonprofit social enterprise that employs women in addiction recovery to create premium handbags from reclaimed materials.
Lyndgaard had a successful career as an engineer and executive at a Fortune 20 company. She loved her work and hadn't planned to leave. But after hearing women share their experiences with addiction recovery, she discovered a problem she wanted to help solve.
Women could spend a year in treatment, only to leave without the employment opportunities, financial stability, or supportive community necessary to sustain their progress.
Lyndgaard knew she wanted to help change that. Figuring out how would require an entirely different kind of education.
How Do You Turn a Meaningful Vision Into Lasting Change?
Turning a vision into lasting change requires understanding what people actually need, rather than assuming you already know the solution.
Lyndgaard wasn't an expert in addiction recovery or social work. She was an engineer and business leader who knew how to identify problems and build systems.
Rather than assume those skills were enough, she began asking questions, volunteering, and listening to women who had experienced addiction and recovery firsthand.
That willingness to learn became foundational to Unshattered.
The organization does more than provide employment. It helps women develop professional skills, financial stability, and supportive relationships that can continue long after treatment ends.
And Lyndgaard's definition of success extends beyond how many women enter the program. She wants to know whether their progress lasts.
According to Unshattered's internal analysis, which Lyndgaard discussed with Dr. J.J. Peterson, the organization has seen encouraging long-term sobriety and employment outcomes among the women it serves.
For leaders, the distinction matters. Starting something meaningful and building something sustainable are different challenges. The first requires the courage to begin. The second requires continuously learning whether your approach is producing the results you intended.
What Happens When Your Assumptions Meet Reality?
Effective leadership requires enough determination to pursue a goal and enough humility to change your approach when the evidence tells you something isn't working.
Unshattered's mission may be compelling, but the organization still needs customers who want to purchase its handbags and supporters who will help fund its programs.
That means understanding what motivates people to participate.
One of the organization's marketing experiments revealed just how important that understanding can be.
Initially, Unshattered invited customers to add a donation during checkout. The response was disappointing.
But when the team explained that customers could pay for shipping so more of their purchase would support the organization's programs, people responded differently.
The team also discovered that customers were more willing to support job training and mentoring when those opportunities were presented as items they could add to their shopping carts rather than as general donations.
The mission hadn't changed. Neither had the underlying need.
What changed was how customers understood their ability to contribute.
It's a useful reminder for any business leader: What you believe should motivate people isn't necessarily what will motivate them.
Lyndgaard's experience demonstrates why humility and determination belong together. She needed the determination to build something ambitious and the humility to recognize that her original assumptions weren't always right.
Being committed to a goal doesn't mean being committed to every strategy you try along the way.
Why Can Getting What You Want Still Feel Like Loss?
Positive change can involve grief because moving toward a better future often means leaving behind relationships, routines, freedom, or parts of your identity.
Lyndgaard noticed this during Unshattered's transition-to-employment program.
Around the sixth week, some women who had been making progress began struggling. They were moving toward greater independence and stability, but they were also leaving behind familiar relationships and communities.
Even when those environments weren't healthy, they were familiar.
That experience points to something people don't always acknowledge about pursuing a meaningful goal: getting what you want doesn't mean you'll feel only happiness when you get there.
Peterson recognized that tension in his own experience becoming a husband and father.
He had wanted to be a dad since childhood. Yet stepping into the life he'd dreamed about meant giving up certain freedoms and accepting responsibilities that changed his daily life.
He loved what he was gaining, but there were still parts of his previous life he missed.
The same tension can emerge when someone starts a business, changes careers, becomes a leader, or takes on a new role they've worked hard to achieve.
Acknowledging what you're leaving behind doesn't mean you've made the wrong decision. It means that even welcome changes can be complicated.
Meaningful Change Requires Audacity and Humility
Pursuing something meaningful rarely unfolds exactly as expected.
Lyndgaard started Unshattered because she recognized a problem she wanted to solve. Building the organization required her to learn about recovery, customer behavior, sustainable business practices, and the emotional realities of change.
Her experience offers a different way to think about ambition.
You can be audacious enough to pursue something you believe in while remaining humble enough to recognize what you still need to learn. You can be determined to move forward without pretending that every step will be easy.
And you can celebrate the future you're building while acknowledging what you're leaving behind.
Knowing what you want gives you a direction. Learning what it takes to get there is where the real work begins.
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[00:00:00] Challenges of Social Enterprise
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Along the way, what mistakes did you make in that process?
Kelly Lyndgaard: How long do we have? I mean, it's tricky. I often joke that we are a marketer's dream and a marketer's nightmare.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yes. Yes. I mean, people don't realize that, especially with nonprofits or social enterprise. You think that's an easy sell. If you buy a pair of shoes, you give a pair of shoes.
But developing the product, the system, the sustainability, and then the message, they are honestly some of the hardest.
Welcome to Badass Softie, a podcast for leaders who are unapologetically ambitious and want to lead with heart because you're allowed to chase big goals without losing what makes you human. I'm your host, Dr. JJ Peterson. And on today's episode, I am so excited to introduce you to my friend, Kelly Lindgaard.
Kelly is the founder of a non-profit called Unshattered. It's, it's a non-profit that makes these beautiful bags from upcycled materials handcrafted by women in recovery. And what's so fun about Kelly is she had this whole career as a physicist and an engineer before she ever even imagined starting Unshattered.
And just in going about living her life, she met women working their way through recovery. And hearing their stories changed the way she thought about the kind of support they needed, and she started asking more questions. She started figuring out, like, what is going on here? How can I be a part of this?
And started looking at her own skills, and then her passion, and going, how do I bring these two things together? And I love this conversation so much because we didn't just talk about her non-profit, but, which is unbelievable, by the way, but we talked about how, you know, sometimes a new chapter can be beautiful and still grieve the old chapter we're leaving behind.
And she also talked about, you know, the Japanese art of Kintsugi, where broken pottery is repaired with gold, and that something beautiful, uh, you know, just because it's broken, it can actually become more beautiful. There's, I mean, I'm just telling you, this is such an amazing and beautiful conversation. I learned so much from Kelly, and we talked about staying humble and driven and asking questions and staying curious.
And, you know, uh, in the end, even she reminded me that if we're going to care for others, we need to take, take care of ourselves, too. So I am so inspired by the work Kelly is doing, and I know you are going to be, too. And so here is my conversation with Kelly Lindgaard Kelly, I am so excited you are here.
You know, I mentioned in the introduction that you and I connected over Instagram, and as I began to hear your story, I was like immediately, "Yeah, I need to have her on." So- Mm ... thank you so much for being on the podcast, and thank you for being a Badass Softie.
Kelly Lyndgaard: Oh my gosh. Well, DJ, thank you. Thank you for your work in the world.
I hunted you down on Instagram because I just love the work that you have done for so many of us, bringing incredible voices to the podcast, but how transparent and generous you've been with your own story of finding your lane, refining your brand, really figuring out how you can do the thing in the world that is most aligned with who you truly are.
And that is the work I'm hoping to do for the women that I serve. So I'm so grateful to be here. A little bit of fangirling today. I'm really... Is it okay to say I'm proud of you- Yes ... and what you've accomplished? 'Cause I've been following you for so long, and you're incredible. It's a gift to be here.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, absolutely.
Well, thank you for that, and, uh, likewise. So we could... I'm sure we could both sit here for all day just be like, "I love you. I love you." Oh, we're fa- it's fantastic. But I really... Oh, tha- so thank you for those words. I- Mm ... I accept those words as well. So I introed you a little bit in, in the beginning to kind of get into this episode, but You were in the corporate world and, you know, in a pretty high-level area.
You know, physicist, engineer, managing a lot of money. Mm-hmm. And I wanna start there with you. I wanna start, what was life like and what were you feeling in that role? Because I think there's a lot of people who might be kind of in that same space. They've gotten their, uh, uh, almost quote-unquote dream job.
They've achieved the success, and you didn't stay there. Why didn't you stay there?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Mm. Yeah, I never dreamed that I was gonna leave. I had a great career. I was an exec in the tech world for a Fortune 20 company. Uh, had made an executive level job before I was 35, and had a lot of great opportunities in front of me, and didn't imagine that I would leave.
Um, however, I walked into a women's event one evening during the week. Um, and what I didn't know is they had another nonprofit there, uh, that had women in recovery from addiction who were sharing that story. And so not knowing that was gonna happen, I always say I was moving in the world being the person who thought the people that struggled with addiction just needed to get their act together, be more responsible, get a job.
What's your problem? And then heard these women share their story, one in particular who had been eight years old, being raised by a single mom who was ill. And so by eight, Emily's taking care of her mom, herself, her little brother, and had a 15-year-old neighbor who thought it would be funny to get an eight-year-old high.
Didn't take long till she is homeless, IV drug user. And that one, like so many things just shifted in my brain in that moment to be like, "Whoa, what? What is this problem?" I did not understand this correctly, and I had a very incorrect judgment and assumption about people Um, I remember pulling her aside, asking her a lot of questions afterwards, and then getting involved as a volunteer in the recovery program that she was going through at the time, which was, it's an incredible program.
[00:06:05] The Day 366 Problem
Kelly Lyndgaard: And yet I started to see this significant social issue that women work so hard to get sober, they go through a 12-month residential program, and I like to call it the day 366 problem. 365 days of a program, day 366, good luck to you. You may not have had the chance to develop job skills, complete an education, and most importantly, you don't have a safe community to return to.
And that was sort of the moment where I was like, "I think I could be using my skills to solve a different problem in the world."
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Wow. And so had you in the past even had, like, any nonprofit experience, like working in a nonprofit or anything like that?
Kelly Lyndgaard: None. None. Nope. No. Like I said, my, my degree is in engineering and physics, and so the- people are often, "Do you have a social work degree?
Are you a therapist?" Nope. The one thing I think translates really well is pattern recognition. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, I have built this organization just trying to be in that constant learning mode of What is happening? What are these milestones and markers along women's journey where they need support, where we can refine our program systems, our language, the way that we interact with women?
Um, an example of that is we do our Transition to Employment program, which is 10 weeks long that they start with. Um, but week six, people just kept getting really wobbly. Like, "Oh, I th- I think I'm gonna go home," or they'd start acting out. Like, what is happening on week six? And I finally figured out it was, like it was that transition to the back half where the ship is moving away from shore, you're moving towards full-time employment, and yet they were grieving what they left behind.
And that was really confusing because they didn't understand that they could, you know, grieve it and recognize you did have friendships, you did have community, you did have an identity, you did have rhythm to your life, and not want to choose that again because it was unhealthy. Uh, but those mixed emotions had to be named.
So that's the transfer for me, is those pattern recognition and problem-solving skills of like how do we architect these systems to help women thrive on the other side of addiction?
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, and what, one of the things that drew me to your story, just even kind of in, a- and one thing I wanted to talk to you about, is, uh, you know, you showed up at this meeting, and the first part is you were open to hearing.
And I think that for a lot of us, like we live our lives with kind of blinders on a lot of times. I even find myself, especially as I'm launching new things or I'm stressed out about stuff, that I kind of go like, "Oh, I don't have time for blank." But the fact that you, like allowed yourself to be open enough to go to an event, and then actually with an open mind listen.
Mm. And then from there you began stepping into curiosity. This was not- Mm ...
[00:08:56] Learning to Ask Better Questions
Dr. J.J. Peterson: you do not have a background in social work, you do not have a background in therapy or recovery or nonprofit or anything,
but you began your journey with questions, questions of the people who you encountered, and then kind of began, from my understanding of reading your story, is began saying, "So what can I do?"
And began there without saying, like I think so often we come up with ideas or we come up and the first thing is, "Well, I can't do that. I don't know how to do that. I don't have a background in that."
And you started with questions. And as I'm hearing kind of like the physicist and engineering side, I'm curious like do you feel like that contributed?
Like is that kinda how you approached your work so then it kind of translated? Or what was it in you that kind of put you in that place of saying, instead of going, "I can't," going, "Well, what if?" What was that mindset?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Yeah. I mean, I think I'm wired that way from the what if question. I have just always asked that in, at every point of my entire life.
I think it's what actually made me good at my prior career. Um, but it was knowing myself, knowing what I had to offer, and- Trying to get people to help me understand the problem. So I had to be really honest of like, "Here's what I thought about this issue," and that kind of makes me look like a jerk to say those things out loud.
Um, I don't understand it, but I see the problem on the other end. So I have resource, I have social capital. You know, I have experience that can help me architect a solution, but I do not have lived experience. And so this journey all along has been blending leadership of those lived experience voices in the organization that we've built, along with the skills You know, social capital, whatever that we bring in from industry to help build that solution.
So it's constantly going, "Okay, here's what I think. How does that align? What do you really need? Am I understanding this correctly?" I'll give you an example of something that I discovered not terribly long ago, and we just celebrated our 10-year anniversary, is that for years we were really celebratory about the milestone of a, a num- a year marker of recovery date, right?
So, so-and-so had five years in recovery today, celebrating their sobriety. We would do that on our social media, whatever. We would do a little dessert at work. Um, and then I discovered in a conversation that while that is certainly worthy of celebrating, what I didn't understand is it actually was the worst day of their life.
Mm. So they were at rock bottom on that date. They walked away from everything in their life. Um, the woman in particular that I had that conversation with had walked... She, she loved animals. She had several cats and pets, and yet she knew she was about to die and she had to walk away, and she does not know to this day what happened to her animals, right?
And it really took me back, even that many years in, to go like, "Ah, I haven't asked the right questions about this." Um, so there's so many layers. I'm just trying to get curious and be like, "Is this landing the way that I think it is?"
[00:12:05] Why Good Changes Bring Grief
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah. And, and I... That's so important to keep asking those questions even after y- I mean, 10 years in and you're still asking the questions.
And I think for a lot of people who are in the place of thinking, "What can I do?" Starting with those questions is so important. But the other part that it is hitting me even personally, um, as you talk about this, is every transition in my life came with some mourning. Mm-hmm, yeah. That I knew I was moving towards something beautiful.
There's very rarely been anything in my life that I've run away from, but I've moved towards something more beautiful. And yet every time I made that move, I had to mourn what was gone. And so even... I was, I talked to my husband about this not that long ago, is that when I became a dad and got married, I had been dreaming about that and wishing for that and hoping for that my whole life, truthfully.
Like from a little kid, all I wanted to be was a dad. And then- In that I was like, oh, I- this sounds a little selfish now, but it was like, oh, but I'm also losing my freedom, I'm losing my financial stability. I'm moving in with people. I've never really lived with people, and all of a sudden now I'm ta- I'm responsible for a six-year-old that's going to school, that I did not have that responsibility before.
Right. Beautiful, lovely, amazing. And same thing every time I've left a job, it's like I'm moving towards something I'm excited and beautiful and a- and amazing, and yet I mourn what was. Yeah. Even as you were stepping into... And, and you've, you've talked about that. I mean, it's such a, an, an interesting thing to s- think of from even from an addiction perspective, because I think that that is so true.
But even for yourself, as you were starting to move into this world of nonprofit and helping people, I bet there was a lot of things that you were so excited about, and then also what were some of the things that you mourned- ... as you left your IBM job?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Yeah, for sure. I mean, at first it was like, you know, you start a nonprofit and you're like, "Um, how do I get a pen around here?"
And people are like, "You, you buy your own pens." You build every single system from scratch. Every single thing you have to invent. And I'm like, "I used to have people." I used to have like legal department and HR department, like all the people that I could go to to figure it out. And so, um, you know, I think there was grief and a little bit of overwhelm about how many things had to be built to actually get the work done that I wanted to get done.
And then, you know, we hit our 10-year anniversary this year, um, which was an incredible milestone. I actually didn't anticipate that that would make very much of a mental difference for me. Like sure, celebrate it's a big deal, whatever. Um, but it actually really shifted something internally for me, and I think in externally for people's understanding of us, that we moved from this moment of Kelly's idea, like Kelly's thing that she's building, and shepherding an idea to really shepherding an institution.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Mm-hmm.
Kelly Lyndgaard: And all of a sudden it has been like this whole new phase of- Oh, I built the thing, it's working. We have the data that it works. You know, we've architected the pieces. Certainly we're always still trying to improve. We're in the middle of a big project to really scale and 10X the number of women that we're serving.
And yet, now it's eyes on the horizon of does this thing stand when my hands are not in it every day? And it also has been interesting the credibility that it has shifted externally of people that have come to us in terms of donors, partners. We worked with the NFL this year, the WNBA, doing products for some of their events.
Um, IMSA that, that does NASCAR and Formula One races, doing bags out of their, uh, driver, uh, fire suits and raceway flags. But just hitting those milestone, like it's a whole new thing, it's a whole new ballgame. Like you said, all of a sudden you're the parent of a, a six-year-old. Yeah. Y- it shifts who people see you as- Yeah
externally, and it shifts your understanding of like, "Oh, now, like I get to step into this new thing." And that's terrifying and beautiful.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: It is. It really is. 'Cause, you know, a lot of times it's like, "Oh, well if I just could live out of my heart and my purpose, then everything will be great." And there's some beauty, obviously, in that, and amazing things that come from that.
And I have been bene- you know, a beneficiary of moving into more a full- living out of the more fullness of myself. Yeah. However, it's still hard- Yeah ... and it still can be, there's things to mourn as you move forward. And, uh, now I described ahead of time a little bit of your organization, but tell me now...
[00:16:54] Building Unshattered
Dr. J.J. Peterson: okay, so it started with you heard the story, you learned more. You started saying, "How do I help women recover, truly recover from addiction and move forward in life?" And you know, started a nonprofit. Describe the nonprofit and what you guys actually do.
Kelly Lyndgaard: Yeah. Yep. So we are nonprofit social enterprise, so we are a 501[c][3], but we have a product.
Um, so our women make premium handbags out of all upcycled, reclaimed materials, so disrupting their journey to the landfill. Things like the leather from Southwest Airlines planes when they refurbish their planes. And then we employ women into what we call a healing-centered workplace community, um, just leading as much as we can with trauma-informed care and understanding that, um, some of the issues- Residual trauma, things that they're still dealing with day to day, um, is gonna cost them when they step into, you know, an, a general job market.
So we are the bridge getting them back into employability. So they, they stay with us for... I have one that's been here six, seven years now, but we have a 10-week transition to employment program, two years of what we call our, um, Business of You program, and then Regenerative Influence program where they start investing in the women coming behind them.
And then about 40% of their paid time is learning new job skills, workshops on anything from healthy eating to learning to manage a budget. Um, they have one-on-one mentors, trauma therapy, classes, all the things to really support their journey, because the first question that I come to this work with is durability of the outcome.
And I don't see that in... I don't see that conversation in the nonprofit world a lot, and certainly not very often with donors and philanthropists, right? It's the, it's, it's almost always the pressure of how fast, how many, which certainly we wanna serve as many as we can. Um, but in this space of addiction recovery, if you get it wrong and it's not durable, the chances that somebody dies are pretty high.
And that's what I got sick of watching, of women working so hard to get sober and not having the durability and the sustainable pathway on the back end, and that's really our work. So we've seen 94% of our employees choose to remain in long-term sobriety. Um, even up to 10 years later, 90% of the women who've come through our program are both sober and employed.
They've been able to hold jobs. 86%, uh, this is a new statistic we weren't even measuring until we just did a big project over the last six months. 86% were able to maintain a job for 12 consecutive months or more after they left Unshattered, which is pretty incredible. So to be the bridge to truly help them rebuild a sustainable life with, um, economic stability and long-term sobriety, that's our goal.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I mean, yes, I read those statistics. I was just like just blown away 'cause I work with a lot of nonprofits, and a lot of them are not able to say that. And I think that, that your long-term solution, the durability of the project, is what's really so powerful about all of this. And the bags are all so beautiful.
Like that's the thing. Oh, thank you. It's like, you know, that in order to actually... Part of the durability is creating a product that people like and that is sust- Yeah ... you know, that people aren't just, like, throwing money at for the sake of, you know. Right. When you're talking about durability for donors-
Kelly Lyndgaard: Uh huh
Dr. J.J. Peterson: you lean into both of the durability of the project, uh, the program obviously. But also one of the things that drew me to you was also your clarity of message. Um, you know, I obviously, uh, my background is in messaging and story, and you have, you have an incredible story. The project has an incredible story.
But the way that you tell it, I think, is so strong. Um, even I think one of your taglines was something like stay f- "Come for the bag, stay for the stories," or something like that. Yeah. Yep. Which is one of the things that I talk to a lot of nonprofits about who are social enterprise, who sell a product.
Interestingly enough, the stories that you tell about the women are, and your own story, are there. They're prevalent. They are bold. But you started with something that was a really strong product, and you messaged the product really well and then include the social enterprise with that. And s- that's actually really hard to do.
Yeah. W- along the way, what mistakes did you make in that process, you feel like, along the way? How long do I
Kelly Lyndgaard: have?
[00:21:38] The Psychology of Giving
Kelly Lyndgaard: I mean, it's tricky. I often joke that we are a marketer's dream and a marketer's nightmare.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yes, yes. And so there's so many layers. I mean, people don't realize that. Just with, especially with nonprofits or, like, people who are involved in social enterprise, you think that's an easy sell. You think it's like, well, if you buy a pair of shoes, you give a pair of shoes.
That's an easy sell. It makes sense. But developing the product, the system, the sustainability, and then the message is actually really, really hard, and I've worked with a lot of different companies, and those ones, like some- I take them on as clients or work with them, but they are honestly some of the hardest.
Kelly Lyndgaard: We're constantly refining it. In fact, we're at this 10-year milestone in the midst of, um, a rebrand again. Um, one of the things that's super challenging is we have three different audiences: shoppers- donors and then sort of the philanthropists who wanna help us scale, so sort of like major, you know, six-figure plus donors.
You can convert a donor to a shopper. We cannot convert a shopper to a donor, 'cause someone's like, "I gave you money and I got something. Why would I give you money and I don't get something?" So one really fascinating thing that we discovered is, um, we were asking for, like, a tip at checkout. You know, help us advance our mission, donate to our program work, blah, blah, blah.
Crickets. Crickets. but one of the things we do is free shipping, and we shifted that to say, "Hey, our dollars that we spend on free shipping actually mean that we can't spend those dollars on programs. Will you help cover the cost of your own shipping?" People are willing to do that. And then the other one that just cracks me up is we had, you know, donate an hour of job skills training, donate $100 an hour for a one-on-one mentoring growth coaching meeting.
Again, crickets. But I made those products. I took the word donation out of it. I made it a product that you can add to your cart, and people will buy a product for which they get nothing, which is the same thing as a donation, but not if I call it a donation. So it's just been a lot of experimenting with the psychology of, like, people don't wanna be asked for something as a donation, but they do wanna make a further impact on the mission, and how do we frame that in a way that matches the identity that they're coming to the organization with?
And then when we see a shopper maybe who has purchased multiple times or has given a tip at checkout to cover their shipping or maybe has purchased one or two of our provide-an-hour products, we're looking for those signals of generosity, which means we have permission to ask. If we ask the general shopper audience, we'll have unsubscribers, we'll have people unfollow us on social media.
But when we can hone in on those people who are really dedicated to the mission, um, we know that there might be more ways for them to participate with us.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: And when you can identify the people who want to take those next step, I actually think it is not only appropriate, but n- um, important to ask them to come into that- Yeah
a little bit deeper. Because- Yeah ... in the same way that you took those steps to leave your job to kind of find fulfillment and work and all the things in helping other people with the nonprofit, there are people out there who are looking for that as well. And I think a lot of times nonprofits get nervous about asking people for money, because it feels like an obligation.
But really, when you invite people into the life-changing work that you are doing- It allows them to find purpose and fulfillment and all that as well, and be a part of something bigger than themselves, find meaning, all those things. So it is so important not only to ask, but like what I love about what you've done is experiment with the ask and figure out, like how do we invite people where they're at into a new level of engagement so that they can be a part of the life-changing work?
Kelly Lyndgaard: I would be really curious. We're also trying to hone in and experiment with, um, how we describe their identity back to them. And so we call not only the women that we serve, um, but the people that partner in our mission ambassadors of possibility.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Hmm.
Kelly Lyndgaard: Um, and there's something really interesting that happens that I get a lot of feedback on of if a, if a woman is carrying one of our bags and she sees another woman with our bag heading into the train on New York City, or I've had somebody, you know, meet someone on an airplane carrying our bag, the assumptions that they make about that other person, they're generous, they're a kind person, they wanna make a difference in the world, they support women, is actually true about them as well.
And so I'm always... I'm very curious where there's, um, where there's a way to, um, make that connection between people. Are there like bag charms that they can trade? Or like how do they start to identify with each other? So that's, that's really one area that we think a lot about, of what happens in those circles outside of when we are present in the conversation- Yeah
that can build community around us.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, the first thing you're tapping into for, that's really important I think for a lot of people to hear, is this whole idea of identity transformation of the customer- Yeah ... or the donor. Yeah. So you've been able to articulate the, in, in the nonprofit, the identity transformation of the people you serve, and that they are, you know, in re- not just in reco- they're living in recovery and they're employed.
Those are actually identity transformations. But your customers or donors also experience that as well. And when a brand can step into that and help identify that transformation and name it in people, it becomes really powerful, 'cause that's, somebody living a good story. Be- you know, it's, uh, i- in any good movie, a person at the beginning of the movie is different by the end.
If they're not, it's not a good story. So, you know, like Luke Skywalker becomes a Jedi, Katniss becomes a Mockingjay, Harry becomes a wizard. You know, it's just kind of like they become this thing. So when you name them ambassadors of possibility, what you're doing is you're leaning into and participating in the transformation of the people who engage with you.
Now, when they begin to take on that identity, and then they begin looking for community of people who are like-minded. And so that's when like, you know, again- Mm-hmm ... Jedis find Jedis- Mm ... and you know, it's like that kinda thing. We look for people. It's a survival mechanism of people who are like us. So finding ways to make that connection, and there are brands that do that really, really well, but I think i- what you're tapping into here, and what I would encourage you to continue tapping into, is those kind of thoughts of- Continue to speak into the people who participate in the transformation, 'cause they are participating in the transformation of others, but also themselves.
Now they can see themselves as generous, as ambassadors of possibility, of people who make a difference in the world, and then finding those opportunities for gatherings. Also, finding opportunities, you know, Charity Water does this really well, where it's, hey, can you... providing opportunity for people to do- use their birthday as an opportunity to connect, um, or host a gathering in your home.
Do you do any of those kind of things?
Kelly Lyndgaard: We do. We do some events on site. We do, um... One of the things built into the bags is we like to say that every bag has three secrets embedded in it. One of them is a gold seam, which is a nod to the Japanese art form of Kintsugi. When pottery was broken, they would use gold to put it back together.
It was so beautiful it became a form of art. That term means more beautiful for having been broken. But we have a local artist who does Kintsugi classes, so often members of our community will come, and they go through this almost a therapeutic process themselves of breaking a bowl, thinking about what those shattered pieces represent, gluing it back together, painting it, putting the gold in the cracks.
And then we weave in the stories from our women sort of at talking about what that point of their life was. So we're constantly trying to figure out ways to create that exact level of engagement and identity shift. I really like the language that you used around that.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: And, and when... The, one of the things that we used to always say is companies or organization that can participate in the transformation of their customer or their donor both win in that process.
'Cause you obviously know that you win and the people you win, people you serve win when they transform out of addiction into being employed and all of that. But it's the same exact thing for your customers and your consumers and your donors. And in thinking that way, you're going to give more value to their donation than just even the product they're buying.
See, th- this is, this is exactly why I needed you on here because- ... almost everything you're saying I'm, like, starting... I tear up. Like the- Mm ... you know, the gold seam and the stories of the people who've transformed and the way that... I tear up about your messaging because it's so good. You know, just like there's just so many different things that I think I'm so excited for, to learn from you and, uh, you know, but also to help other people in this process as well who might be in the, some of the same...
It is possible. It is possible to see a need, leave a life that you do like and love in, move into something that even becomes more fulfilling and in that process discover so much beauty and joy and learning and everything, and then invite other people into that same journey you've been on I think is so incredibly powerful.
[00:31:37] Leaders Need Two Qualities
Dr. J.J. Peterson: And, uh, one, you know, one more question just kind of I would have for you is- As you look back, you know, congratulations on the 10 years obviously. Mm. But as you look back to yourself 10 years ago, what is something that you would say to yourself, to that person 10 years ago as they were getting ready to get started in this journey?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Hmm. What a good question. I think I think it's to continue to hold the balance of being humble and being determined, right? Uh, I mean, we've had a lot of this conversation that, I'm a learner and constantly questioning. Yes. And then make no mistake, I think I have a right answer, and I'm gonna run at it hard and be committed to my point of view until I intersect something else that makes me go, "Hmm."
Um, but I think I need both of those things. That's the only reason Unchartered exists is the pauses to both be humble and be like, "Oh, I don't think I understood this in the way that I thought I did. Where can I get more information, more input, more perspective?" Coming from the corporate world, one of the questions I often ask is like, "What's my instinct?
What's the opposite?" Mm. How would we do this in the opposite way? And then keep running forward as hard as I can because we cannot build this, we cannot serve as many women as we wanna serve if it's not, like, charging forward to make it happen. But don't, I would say to that version of myself 10 years ago, don't lose either one of those.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I mean, that's, uh, y- y- you know, that's the badass softie 'cause I don't think- Mm ... you can accomplish what you've accomplished without being audacious a little bit- Yeah ... and being driven, because otherwise it's like, "Well- Right ... maybe I'll just make a bag and donate to somebody else." Right. Yeah. So there's a level that you have to be a little audacious and a little- Yep
bit, and obviously driven, but also that humble side of the softie of like remember you don't know everything, remember who you're serving, remember y- to listen to the voices of the people that working alongside you and with you to help you continue to grow. I love that so much.
[00:33:46] Caring for Yourself While Leading
Dr. J.J. Peterson: And then my next question of this is what do you think the version of yourself 10 years from now would tell yourself now?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Um, I think she would tell me something that I constantly tell myself, but she probably will have more conviction and wisdom about it, which is if I am not thriving, and my life is not healthy, and I am not working from my highest giftedness, then the work doesn't matter. I cannot be building that for everybody else at the cost of myself.
Um, and it's that, that constant balance to step back and check in and make sure that I understand where I am struggling and where I need support and where I need to be taking advantage of the same resources that we're offering to our women, um, because I need to be healthy too along the way.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah. I mean it, everything you're talking about is just such good stuff of, like, eating healthy- Recovering from trauma, developing skills.
I mean, all the things that we all- Yep, building
Kelly Lyndgaard: relationships, having community. Oh, it's so much.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But it's, I think we often, you know, like you said, we look at other people and we go, "Hey, you would be great if you were, if you were dealing with this." But saying that to ourselves- You're right.
Yeah ... I think is really, really powerful.
Kelly Lyndgaard: I mean, it's another, it's another humbling element of the work. It's like we're serving these women, and they're doing that hard work, and there are many, many days where I'm like, "I need to get it together." They're- They're so committed to their healing and to- Yeah
learning new patterns and new relationship structures or whatever. And you're like, "Okay, this is convicting."
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, I hope that we can, um, you know, in 10 years I'm still doing this, you're still doing that, and we can come back and be like, "Hey, remember when you said that? How's it going?" Yes. Yeah. You know, 10 years from now.
And be able to celebrate your 20-year anniversary. Mm-hmm. Uh, for anybody who is interested in, you know, supporting the work or buying a bag, donating an hour, wh- where can they find you?
Kelly Lyndgaard: Yeah. So we're at unshattered.org. Uh, and you can also find us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, @UnshatteredNY.
We would love for you to follow us. You can, um, come for the bags, stay for the stories on our newsletter where we're constantly sharing new drops of products, impact of women, where we're scaling and building, adding things like housing partnerships and new, um, state-certified apprenticeships for our women.
So don't miss out. It is incredibly motivating to watch these women, um, and a gift to be an ambassador of possibility on their behalf, as you also are on the journey of transforming the way that you view the world as well.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, it's been incredible to hear part of your story, and I wanna support what you're doing.
I want other people to support what you're doing. And thank you for all of the things. For, for taking the leap. Thank you for giving of yourself, and also leaning into yourself to be able to discover your own purpose in this life as well. So thank you for being here, thank you for all you do, and thank you for being a Badass Softie.
Kelly Lyndgaard: Awesome. Thank you, JJ. It was a gift to be here with you. I'm grateful.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I kept tearing up during that whole conversation. There was, there were so many beautiful things, um, in it, and I love what Kelly is doing and who she is, and I hope that, um, you go to unshattered.org and support and encourage her, and s- you know, support the women who are going through recovery.
Buy a bag, donate, do all the things. Um, I just want her and her organization and everybody involved to continue to find more and more success. But the thing that, you know, if I pause long enough and go, "So what was the thing?" If there's one thing that I got out of this, um, for myself that I wanna walk away with, it's really this idea that sometimes when you're leaving something hard behind, there is still a grieving process.
And, uh, you know, I mentioned it in my own life, but, you know, there's been so many times... There's un- literally, I don't think ever been a time that I've left something where I didn't mourn what was, even in the midst of celebrating what was to come. And so if you are in that season of transition and you're like, "Why am I sad about leaving this behind when I chose to leave, and it's good that I left, and I should never have been there, da-da," all those things, and you go, "But I'm still, there's still sadness there," I think there's, there's mourning of, uh, loss of possibility and the loss of dream of what could've been in that situation, but there's also, there's always good things.
And if you're in that spot, I think take some time to mourn it. Recognize. Give yourself a little bit of, of grace in that, uh, in that transition, and be okay with that. 'Cause other people will be like, "Oh, you're so happy you're out of there. I'm so glad you're gone. Uh, you probably hated it," da da da, and you're like, "Yes, and...
Yes, and." And I think that in this transition, if you are in one of those transitions, give yourself some space to grieve. Give yourself some space to mourn, uh, because I think that's actually very appropriate. And also, look towards the future and the new things. Be confident in the decisions you're making and moving forward.
So I hope that you got so much. I mean, there's probably a million things you got out of this conversation, but if you're in that place of transition, give yourself some space to grieve and also celebrate what is to come. So as we close out today, let me leave you with this May you give yourself permission to grieve what you're leaving behind, even when you're grateful for where you're going.
May you stay curious enough to ask another question and humble enough to listen closely to the answer. May you keep pursuing the work that matters to you while remembering that your health matters, too. And may you trust that what has been broken does not have to be hidden. With care and time, and maybe a little bit of gold, a new kind of beauty can emerge.
Because we believe you can be both ambitious and kind, fun and driven, powerful and deeply human. Your leadership can inspire, your success can have soul, and your ambition can make space for everyone. That's why you're a badass softie. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. Follow and subscribe so you don't miss an episode.
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