When Work Is Personal—and Why Pretending Otherwise Is the Real Risk
There’s a quiet lie many of us inherit about work:
That professionalism requires distance.
That closeness makes things messy.
That the safest leaders keep it impersonal.
It sounds responsible. It sounds mature.
And it’s often wrong.
Work is already personal. We just pretend it isn’t.
We spend more waking hours with coworkers than with many of the people we love most. We bring our stress, our hopes, our exhaustion, our ambition, and our fear into every meeting—whether we name it or not. The question isn’t whether work is personal. The question is whether we’re willing to be intentional about it.
Prefer to listen? Press play below.
Why Distance Feels Safer (But Isn’t)
Distance creates the illusion of control. If we don’t care too much, if we don’t connect too deeply, then conflict feels less risky. Feedback stays surface-level. Disappointment feels contained.
But distance also starves trust.
Teams that lack relational safety don’t fail loudly. They fail quietly—through hesitation, second-guessing, guarded communication, and creative withdrawal. People stop telling the truth when they don’t believe the relationship can hold it.
Safety Changes Everything
When people feel safe, they take risks. They offer better ideas. They challenge weak thinking. They recover faster after mistakes.
Safety doesn’t mean the absence of conflict. It means conflict doesn’t threaten belonging.
That distinction matters.
When a relationship is non-negotiable, the problem becomes negotiable. Feedback stops feeling like rejection. Disagreement becomes collaborative instead of adversarial. Accountability sharpens rather than softens.
The Boundary Most People Get Wrong
Many leaders believe boundaries mean separating the personal from the professional. In reality, the most stabilizing boundary is clarity—not distance.
Healthy work relationships are grounded in shared understanding:
What power exists, and where
What loyalty means—and what it doesn’t
What happens when things go wrong
Leaders create safety not by asking for vulnerability, but by going first—and by being honest about what they can and cannot promise.
The Risk Worth Taking
Yes, work relationships can complicate things. They can surface emotions, disagreements, and disappointment. But avoidance doesn’t eliminate risk—it just hides it.
When trust is present, complexity becomes navigable. When it isn’t, even simple problems feel dangerous.
The goal isn’t to blur every boundary. The goal is to draw boundaries that don’t shrink the people inside them.
Because leadership with heart isn’t soft.
It’s sturdy.
And it makes better work possible.
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[00:00:00] The myth of keeping work and personal separate
Dr. J.J. Peterson: A lot of times people feel like you're setting yourself up for failure if you hire or decide to work with your best friend or your partner or someone close with you. But the reality is workplace relationships are real and they're personal, and you have to navigate those. So that's what we're gonna talk about today.
Welcome to Badass Softie, a podcast for leaders who are unapologetically ambitious and want to lead with heart because you're allowed to chase big goals without losing what makes you human. I'm your host, Dr. JJ Peterson, and on today's show I talk to my bestie and marketing expert, Kristin Spiotto. Uh, Kristin Spiotto.
I've known. Forever if we talk about it in the episode a little bit. She is the founder and head of Decoded Strategies, which is a badass marketing company that works with tech companies and AI and uh, founders to really clarify their message. And today what we're gonna talk about is really friendship in the workplace.
We're gonna talk about our friendship and how we've benefited from it, and some of the things we're very intentional about with our friendship. So if you've ever been in this situation where you feel like I have to keep my personal life personal and my professional life professional, and you've really struggled with that, I, I, I think you're gonna get a lot out of today's conversation.
Here we go. Here we go. I always have to hype myself up, especially for conversations like this. Okay. Okay. Kristin , you're my best friend. And we have not only lived together, we lived together as roommates. Um, I lived with your husband as well. I was roommates with your husband. Um, we have worked together in very close capacity for.
Uh, more than a decade. The 15 years is probably how long we've worked together. Uh, we shared, uh, an office Basically, we did every project together when we, when I was Dean of Students and you associate Dean, and then we've worked together in capacity at StoryBrand and in marketing and messaging. And the reason I wanted to have you on is because I, I, I think there is this myth out there.
That you have to keep your personal life personal and your professional life professional and near the two shall meet because when they come together and it gets too personal at work, then it gets too complicated. And I understand why there's some concern in that space, but I believe that you and I. In our relationship have made each other better.
And our friendship outside of work and inside of work has made us better for 15 years. I think working together made our personal connection better and also our personal connection made our work life to be to, uh, better. And so that's kind of what I wanted to talk about today for people who are kind of in that space of like.
Ugh. How do I keep my personal life and my professional life separate? And I'm like, eh, I don't know that you have to. Mm. Mm-hmm.
Kristin Spiotto: Well, I don't think you can actually, I think you can try and you can pretend for a certain amount of time, but eventually those, those barriers are made up and they just, it just collapses eventually.
So I don't think it's possible actually.
[00:03:22] Why work is inherently relational
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah. I think that's what we have to admit is that, uh, work is relational and we have to admit that. And so lean into it a little bit because the research actually shows, like from Gallup and Harvard Business Review. That teams who have connection outperform teams that don't.
So you just start on that principle. And then beyond that, when somebody actually says, the research shows that when somebody's able to say, I have a best friend at work or a work best friend, that they perform better, they're happier, retention is higher, all of those things. So let's talk a little bit about why.
Our relationship works in, not in the personal side. We'll get into the personal side at some point, but why do you think what we like? 'cause you actually recommended me for the job when I, you were already working at the university and you recommended me for the job to come in and be your boss basically, which was probably a little scary at the time, but why?
What was it about our relationship that you thought, oh, this can actually work?
Kristin Spiotto: Yeah, well, at that time I was probably too young to realize it's maybe not the best idea to ask your best friend to come be your boss, but I'm glad, I'm glad I didn't know that. Looking back, it's fine.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah.
Kristin Spiotto: Well, let's talk about it because I think, um, as I look back on our work relationship that we've had.
One of, first of all, we are for each other always. Like that's, that's the thing that there's never a question about, oh, am I choosing this or am I choosing this? There's no choice 'cause I'm four JJ until the day that I die.
[00:05:02] Knowing what someone is really saying
Kristin Spiotto: But the other piece with that is I think when you truly know somebody, you can actually hear.
What they are really saying to you. So, so let me, let me give an example. Sometimes JJ this gonna get, oh,
Dr. J.J. Peterson: okay, I'm starting to sweat. I'm starting to sweat.
Kristin Spiotto: Um, sometimes J.J. I remember when I would bring a suggestion to you and you would say, no, no, we're not doing that. And I would say. Okay. Um, and I would, but I would know you well enough to know, J.J. Are you hungry?
Do you have a headache? Or is that really not the best thing that we should be doing? And because we knew each other, I, we were able to have the, the actual conversation that we need to be having, which is either I'm overworked and I haven't had lunch today. Or the quality of this just sucks and we need to bring it up a bit.
So I think knowing each other, you can actually have the true conversations that need to happen instead of wondering.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I think that's, that's so key. I think that's, that's true in, you know, so many relationships, but the idea of understanding, assuming the best in the other person, I think that's part of, that's a little bit of this with you and I, is that yes.
You know, if, if anybody's been around me when I have not slept well, and I've talked about this before, I get very emotional. I start crying like at the drop of a hat. Um, if I am hungry and my blood sugar is low, I can be very short. I try not to be mean, but like sometimes I'm like, no. Nope, we're not doing that.
Nope. I can't, you know, and. You always assumed the best in me in those moments. It didn't mean that you weren't pissed at me or didn't like call me out on it, but it did mean that you didn't start from the sense of this guy's an asshole. You started from the sense of like, no. We want good things for this university.
We want good things for each other. And this moment is not his best. And so you assumed that, and I think that's so important in, um, in any kind of relational aspect at work. Well, really any relationship in a spouse, right? Like if you can come at it, assuming the best in other people. Yes. Some people are mean, and some people will burn you in this.
[00:07:17] Assuming the best changes in collaboration
Dr. J.J. Peterson: But when you start from a place of assuming the best, it actually takes you to a whole nother level of uh, um, collaboration. Because then there would be those moments where. Especially, you trusted me enough that if you did think it was a really good idea that you were like, Hey, we, we actually have to sit here for a little bit even though you and I disagree on this.
We have to sit here for a little bit and work through this and elevate it both together versus separate.
[00:07:44] Why fun matters when the work is heavy
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Another thing that I think for us really worked together, we really worked for us, is we were so intentional about having fun. Alongside the, the, just the heavy work. 'cause we did a lot of heavy work and we ended every Friday by, um, putting on a song and dancing to it.
Every Friday, almost every Friday, we would put on a song and we would dance to it to end the week. So no matter. How heavy things were, how hard things were, um, how pissed at each other we were in the moment. We ended, uh, we ended every week with a dance party. And I think that was real and it, that played over into so many other areas of our lives, like going to Disneyland together and going out to eat and all these different things, but making sure that fun was a priority in the midst of the heavy work.
Kristin Spiotto: I mean, you're my favorite person to play with. And I think, um, that principle of. Keeping fun as as this is a through line. What that enabled us to do, I think, is then when improvements need to be made, which is what happens in work. That's the very nature of work, is we're solving problems. Problems are surfaced by errors.
We gotta fix it. What we can do then is you and I, because our relationship is not negotiable. It's not. That's the biggest thing, is like our friendship is not negotiable. So what that means now. Is that we can actually look at the problem together to solve it instead of feeling like, oh, I, my humanity and our friendship is wrapped up in this problem and it's up for grabs.
And maybe, but when the relationship is non-negotiable, you can actually tackle the real problem in the way that it needs to be tackled.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah, because we're not worried about, like, I think there's probably even times where I would say to you like. Hey, I, I'm pissed at you right now, but we're gonna be okay.
So let's, like, we're fine. Like, what do you want for dinner? Like, I'm pissed right now, but what do you want for dinner kind of mentality of like, you know, come on over. Yes, the chicken's gonna be ready, but like right now we just need to get this done, but we'll be fine. But I'm angry and being like really honest about that, where our relationship and I think in, in, you know.
In work environments when you can, and again, this isn't always healthy. I think we got really lucky in a lot of ways and there are people who will take advantage of this and I understand that and I understand that drawing hard boundaries at work, there are moments that that has to happen and there's moments that that has happened in my life as well, but I don't think it has to be this dichotomy of personal is personal and professionals professional.
We made each other better because you are, you're the person that can be the most honest with me in all things. And so like in my personal and professional. And so when we actually walk in that, I think it's really, really powerful. What do you think are some, um. Why do you think people are afraid to kind of be like, hire your best friend or work with a spouse even like in an office environment?
Kristin Spiotto: Well, I think, you know, why are people nervous about this? It's because they care about the relationship so much. And anytime, like one idea, that can be really tricky. 'cause you said something a minute ago on, you know, why do people need to keep, you know, wanna keep firm boundaries and all of that. And one thing that has to be surfaced here.
[00:10:57] Power dynamics leaders can’t ignore
Kristin Spiotto: Is the power differential because you cannot, as a leader, ask somebody, Hey, treat me like family. Bring your whole self to the table if you are ready to fire them and you're ready to dismiss them and end the relationship. And you could do that in a moment's sake. So that's one important thing to think about is.
Who are we asking this of and who needs to go first when you're talking about bringing yourself to the table, and I think it has to start as a leader and a willingness to be the leader. So that's, that's just one important thing. But why are people nervous about it? Because what if you lose the relationship?
What if like, that's it. Like what if a problem comes up that's big enough that cost the relationship, which is literally. The most important thing in the world. And a lot of times I think people think there's this dichotomy in business where it's like you're gonna grow, but sometimes it has to happen at the expense of people.
I think that is fundamentally false because people are not a means to an end. They are the end. So you have to look at it through that lens. But I would say that's why it's scary, because yeah. Oh my gosh, what if you lose the most precious thing?
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah. And the truth is, if I, if you and I are probably both being really honest, I don't think we could work with our spouses full-time, like in mm-hmm.
Like, so there are some things of like, and we love them, we adore them, they are the, the best of all of us. And yet, yeah. Working full-time with either of our spouses probably would not be a good idea. We, we might hurt the relationship in that aspect. Yeah. So this isn't a blanket not for everybody, just, it's not for every relationship in your life.
But it, like I said, I, I, I did a little bit of research preparing for this and it, it was so fun to just, even, I, I've seen it in our own lives that when we feel safe, we are better. And that's what the research shows. The research shows. Harvard did a study that showed that. When you actually can say, I have a best friend at work that you outperform teams and, and groups of people that can't say that.
So when you're safe, there's more creativity, there's better problem solving, like you said. And so I think what also part of it is then is being intentional in a work environment to allow for spaces like that. So we're talking kind of about the, the positives here of everything that you can experience in that, in this case.
[00:13:13] The boundary that actually mattered
Dr. J.J. Peterson: But I think there were probably some unspoken boundaries that we created to make this work. And I think the first kind of boundary that you mentioned is this idea that. The boundary we created for the work environment was we are for each other first. So like when it comes to work, we actually didn't put a boundary on our personal.
We put a boundary on work and said, in this relationship, not all other relationships, but in this relationship. The relationship comes first, work comes second, and we are for each other. It doesn't mean we don't get stuff done, doesn't mean we don't make hard decisions, but we are for each other. That was a boundary we set for work.
You know, if I'm, uh, thinking about this, I'll, I'll bring one more, is that I think a boundary that we set is in, in both of these cases, in two specific cases we worked together. The closest I was actually your boss and that create, that could create a very weird dynamic. The personal boundary we created is that never extended outside of the workspace?
Yes, there was a little bit of power dynamics at work of where like if it was a 51% to 49% vote, like things rested on my shoulders in a different way sometimes, but that's even hard to say. It's weird to say, but we never extended that beyond the office that I, I don't feel like, do you feel like we ever kind of brought that power dynamic outside of the workspace?
Kristin Spiotto: I mean, unless it's me bossing you around outside. Outside, that is very true. Might have, might have swapped it, but it's fine. But no, no, I think, I think that was it. It's like, we know, we know where this exists, but I think the thing that I would. That I would add to that is, and this is like the, the beauty of of having a badass softie as your best friend is, you know, when you have to get the job done.
Like, you know, and we were committed to that. And so having somebody who you can be real with, and we would, right, like think about all the mornings that were early mornings or we were hurting or, and we knew like, Hey, we gotta go welcome 500 kids to campus, or we gotta go lead a workshop. There's people, you have a moment as humans together and you say, we're gonna get this done and then we're gonna.
We're gonna go get dinner on the other side of this.
[00:15:23] Being a “badass softie” in practice
Kristin Spiotto: And so I think that recognition that it's not just, that's why the badass softy thing is so fricking brilliant, J.J. Because it's not one or the other, but you can be a softie together so that you can be a badass together and the other way around. And so I think, um, that's, I don't know that it's a boundary, but that's the, that is I think, the unspoken rule that we had in place, which is we're gonna get it done, whatever it takes, and if it, if we have to lean more on one than the other, we're gonna get it done.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Yeah, I think that is a key piece as well as we were committed to the cause. I mean, that's like whatever, cause we were in, we were in it together. There was never any, any point that we were like, well, well we don't need to do, give our best in this environment. And I think that's so key in all those spaces is because a lot of times.
There might be even a differentiation in work on those kind of things. Like one person's super committed, another person's like, well, we're just here to have fun. And we were both like, that was a big key is we were committed to the work and the cause. Whatever we've been involved in, I mean, whether it was a nonprofit or whether it was orientation, or whether it was even our families, I mean.
I remember, you know, when you wanted to do sleep training for your first child and it was like, okay, I will sit outside the room with you while your child cried and you know, there, and we didn't last. We will just say that like, so if anybody is gonna listen to this and be like, oh, sleep training's horrible.
Yes, it was. We didn't last, um, didn't work, didn't work. And so, uh, you know, like we stayed up late. Like we committed to each other, to doing the thing together and making things work. Both inside and outside of the work environment. So I think, you know, I didn't, I didn't really want this to be like a, oh here, you know, here's tips and tricks to working with your best friend.
But I think even if you're in any environment, in any environment, you have to recognize that trying to keep things professional and personal, those like a hear hard boundary for all relationships. We just have to admit that work is personal. We spend more time with people at work than we do our families a lot of times, most of the time.
And so we have to just recognize that those relationships are there and they matter. And when you can approach 'em from, first off, creating a safe space where people feel that you are for them, that is huge. When you also don't take those power dynamics outside of the office when you, when outside of the office, when you can just be friends and enjoy each other and have fun or get really deep and personal.
Either way, you're not taking those power dynamics outside of the office. And then, you know, lastly, when you are all actually really in it, having to understand that everybody is working together for a common goal to accomplish big things. When you can remind each other of that and the work itself is also important.
I think that's huge. And I think those are just a few of the pieces why we were able to now, uh, you know, 15 years of working together, 20 years of friendship that we are, you know, this summer going on vacation as a fam as families together. Like our families are actually, we're going together for our first like dual family re uh, uh, vacation.
And that's because we've really committed to these things in all of this, and it's made us better. I know it's made me better, and I know that I, I wouldn't be where I am without your friendship. And I think for a lot of people understanding that how powerful those relationships can be is going to actually dynamically change the way that you show up to work.
Kristin Spiotto: I'm not sure everybody gets lucky enough to get to, uh, work with their soulmate forever. Um, but what I will say is I, I remember, uh, I, I remember early on in our friendship where I, I made a decision and I decided or realized, I'm not sure, which. I will love this person until I die. So whatever that takes, I will love this person until I die.
And so, uh, the fact that we've gotten to be colleagues has just been one extension of, of that decision that I got to make a long time ago.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, thank you for being a badass softie. Thank you for being my best friend. And, um, thank you for coming on the podcast and airing out all our dirty laundry.
Kristin Spiotto: Anytime. Anytime.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Love you, jj.
Kristin Spiotto: Love you too.
[00:19:41] When friendship makes you better, not smaller
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Well, can you see why she's my best friend? She really is amazing, and there's so much more to her. We could have talked for hours on so many different subjects, but the thing that I really am taking away from today as a reminder that when you lean into relationships that are healthy, that are for you, that they really make you better.
And I think there was a season in my life, and there have been seasons in my life where I was scared to do this because I thought, well, it's gonna make things too complicated and it's gonna make things too hard. And the truth is. Sometimes that is true. Sometimes having somebody in a deep relationship with you at work can make things more complicated.
They can have moments of hardship. I would argue it is worth it when they are healthy, and I am just excited to continue to grow in that with Kristin and others, and I hope you do as well. And so. I want to leave you with this. May you lean into friendships at work with intention and courage. May you find the kind of people that you can trust to be for you, not just in the wins but in the hard conversations to may.
You draw boundaries that don't shrink you, but steady you so that you're not just surviving at work, but you're growing through it. May you find the friendships that change not only how you work, but how you fully show up in your life. Because we believe you can be both ambitious and kind, fun and driven, powerful and deeply human.
Your leadership can inspire your success, can have soul, and your ambition can make space for. Everyone. That's why you are a badass softie. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. Follow and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Badass softie.com is crafted by fruitful design and strategy.