Selling Isn’t the Problem. Your Definition of It Is.
Selling often feels uncomfortable—not because leaders lack confidence in their work, but because of how selling has been defined. In this conversation, Dr. J.J. Peterson explores a different approach with Bob Burg, co-author of The Go-Giver, focusing on what changes when the goal shifts from convincing to creating value. When leaders show up with empathy, curiosity, and a genuine desire to serve, sales becomes less about pressure and more about connection—and the results tend to follow.
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There’s a moment that happens in a lot of conversations.
Everything feels easy at first. You’re talking, asking questions, maybe even laughing a little. It feels natural—like you’re just two people trying to figure something out together.
And then it happens.
They ask, “So… what does this cost?”
And almost instantly, something shifts.
You become more aware of your words. You start thinking about how to explain the value, how to justify the price, how to make sure they understand. The conversation that felt relaxed suddenly feels like it has stakes.
For a lot of leaders, that’s the moment selling starts to feel uncomfortable.
Not because they don’t believe in what they’re offering—but because it suddenly feels like they’ve crossed into a different kind of conversation.
One where they’re expected to convince.
When You Care About People, Selling Feels Complicated
If you lead with heart, that moment can feel especially heavy.
You don’t want to pressure someone into a decision. You don’t want to push or manipulate or “handle objections.” You want to help. You want to serve. You want the person on the other side of the conversation to walk away feeling better—not boxed in.
And yet, you still have goals. You still have revenue to generate. You still have work that matters and people who need it.
So you find yourself caught in the middle—trying to be both effective and aligned with your values.
That tension isn’t a sign that something is wrong with you.
It’s a sign that the definition you’ve been given for selling doesn’t fit.
As Bob Burg, co-author of The Go-Giver, explains:
“It’s not that people don’t like selling. It’s that they don’t like what they think selling is.”
If selling means convincing someone to do something they’re not ready to do, then of course it feels uncomfortable.
Because that’s not leadership.
That’s pressure.
A Different Way to Approach the Conversation
What if that moment—the one where everything tightens—wasn’t the point where you had to switch roles?
What if it wasn’t the moment you needed to become more persuasive, more strategic, or more “salesy”?
What if it was simply the moment where the conversation became more honest?
There is another way to approach selling, and it starts with a subtle but powerful shift in focus.
Instead of asking, “How do I move this person toward a decision?” the question becomes, “What does this person actually need?”
That shift changes the entire posture of the conversation. You’re no longer trying to guide someone toward an outcome you’ve already decided on. You’re working to understand what would genuinely be helpful for them.
This idea sits at the center of The Go-Giver philosophy by Bob Burg and John David Mann, which challenges the assumption that success comes from getting—and instead argues that it comes from giving.
You can explore that philosophy more deeply here:
The Go-Giver: https://thegogiver.com/the-go-giver
The Go-Giver Sells More: https://thegogiver.com/the-go-giver
As Bob describes it:
“Shifting your focus from getting to giving… constantly and consistently providing immense value to others.”
It’s a simple shift. But it changes everything about how you show up.
What Value Actually Looks Like in the Moment
In that same conversation—the one that felt easy before the price came up—nothing actually changed about the person sitting across from you.
They still have the same problem.
The same questions.
The same uncertainty about what to do next.
The only thing that changed… was your focus.
When you start thinking about explaining, justifying, or convincing, your attention subtly turns inward. You begin managing how you’re being perceived instead of staying curious about what they need.
But value doesn’t come from perfectly explaining your offer.
It comes from how you hold the conversation.
Value can look like giving someone the space to think out loud. It can mean paying attention to what they’re not saying just as much as what they are. It can be asking a question that helps them see their situation more clearly than they could on their own.
As Bob outlines, what you’re really giving in these moments is:
Your time
Your attention
Your empathy
Your insight
Your ability to create clarity
These things don’t feel like “selling,” but they are often the reason someone stays in the conversation.
Because when someone feels understood, they lean in.
Why Price Isn’t the Real Decision
If you’ve ever walked away from a conversation thinking, “They just couldn’t afford it,” it’s worth pausing for a second.
Because most decisions aren’t made purely on price.
They’re made on how someone feels about the value.
Think about the difference between two experiences you’ve had as a buyer. In one, you felt rushed, uncertain, maybe even a little defensive. In the other, you felt clear, understood, and confident in what you were choosing.
Those experiences shape how you interpret the price.
That’s why someone can choose a higher-priced option and feel good about it—or choose a lower-priced option and still feel unsure.
As Bob Burg puts it:
“Money is simply an echo of value.”
The numbers don’t create the decision.
The experience does.
This Same Pattern Shows Up in Leadership
This dynamic isn’t limited to sales conversations.
It shows up in meetings, strategy discussions, and the way decisions are made inside teams.
Most leaders have experienced this: you present an idea, explain your reasoning, and people nod along. In the moment, it looks like alignment. But later, the energy fades. The follow-through isn’t there. And you’re left wondering what didn’t stick.
What happened wasn’t a failure of communication.
It was a gap in connection.
When people feel like they’re being directed instead of understood, they may comply in the moment—but they don’t commit.
And that distinction matters.
Compliance can move things forward temporarily. But commitment is what sustains momentum.
Commitment comes from people feeling heard, seeing how the direction connects to what matters to them, and trusting the person guiding the process.
A More Sustainable Way to Show Up
At its core, this shift isn’t about learning a new technique. It’s about changing how you enter the conversation.
It’s the difference between trying to get somewhere and trying to understand what’s actually happening.
It’s choosing to stay present instead of rushing toward an outcome.
It’s recognizing that the conversation itself is where trust is built—not just the decision at the end of it.
That doesn’t mean letting go of goals or ignoring business realities. It simply means approaching those realities in a way that aligns with how you naturally want to lead.
And for many leaders, that removes a surprising amount of pressure.
What This Looks Like When It Counts
The next time you’re in that moment—when the question comes, when the stakes feel higher—you don’t need to switch into a different version of yourself.
You don’t need to “handle” the conversation.
You just need to stay in it.
Stay curious about what the other person actually needs. Ask questions that help them think more clearly. Focus on what would genuinely move them forward, even if that doesn’t immediately benefit you.
Because ultimately, people aren’t making decisions based on your goals.
As Bob Burg says:
“Nobody’s going to buy from you because you have a quota to meet… they’re going to buy from you because they believe they’ll be better off by doing so than by not doing so.”
That belief is built in the conversation.
Not through pressure.
Not through persuasion.
And definitely not through a pitch.
Rethinking What It Means to Sell
Selling doesn’t feel uncomfortable because you’re doing it wrong.
It feels uncomfortable because you’ve been operating from a definition that doesn’t match who you are.
When that definition changes—when selling becomes about understanding, contributing, and creating value—the experience begins to shift.
The conversation becomes more natural.
The connection becomes stronger.
And the outcomes tend to take care of themselves.
If this perspective resonates, share it with someone who has felt that same tension—the pull between wanting to serve and feeling like they have to sell.
They may not need a new strategy.
They may just need a different way to see the conversation.
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[00:00:00] Why Selling Feels So Uncomfortable
J.J. Peterson: I don't know about you, but whenever it comes to a sales conversation, pitching a product, pitching an idea to people, I always start to feel like I have to convince people to, uh, I have to sell something. Right? And I, I, I, I don't like sales, but I have learned over the past few years to think about sales different.
Welcome to Badass Softie, a podcast for leaders who are unapologetically ambitious and want to lead with heart because you're allowed to chase big goals without losing what makes you human. I'm your host, Dr. JJ Peterson, and I don't know about you, but whenever it comes to a sales conversation or.
Pitching a product or you know, pitching an idea to people, I always start to feel like I have to convince people to, uh, I have to sell something, right? So today I wanted to bring on somebody who, uh, teaches people how to think differently about these kind of conversations where you have to convince somebody of something, whether it's sales or a project, or get some, or have more influence.
And I love the way he approaches things. His name is Bob Berg, and I learned about him through a mutual friend, and Bob really talks about how you have to have a subtle shift in the way you have these conversations. And for more than 30 years, he's helped companies, sales leaders, thought leaders and their teams more effectively communicate their value.
[00:01:37] Why This Conversation Matters for Leaders
J.J. Peterson: And here's the actual real key here. Set higher prices. When you show up the way that Bob teaches you to show up, you win and your customer wins. And he calls it becoming a go giver. So if you've ever struggled with having feeling like, Ugh, I hate to try to convince people of things, or I hate to try to sell people on things, this conversation is for you.
So I'm so excited for you today to hear my conversation with Sales Leader with business leader. Bob Berg. Bob, I am so excited to have you on the podcast today. You and I got introduced through a mutual friend, so we don't know each other that well, but I started kind of reading your, uh, reading some of the things that you've written, watching some videos of you speak, and I became more and more.
Excited about bringing you on to share your philosophy, the the Go-Giver philosophy. And that's what we're gonna talk about today with this audience because, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of say why I, I, the reason I brought you on is I'm gonna be very honest when it comes to sales and selling, uh, it, that is not something I would say is my forte.
Putting myself out there for having greater influence because I'm a little bit sensitive. Like one of the things that scares me the most is when people say, I get on a call, we're talking about everything, and then they go, how much do you charge? And all of a sudden I start to shrink and. You teach people to show up a different way.
So thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with, uh, the badass Softies out there. And I'm so excited to have you here because you truly are someone I consider to be a badass softie. So thank you for being here.
Bob Burg: I take that as a great compliment, Dr. Peterson, and, and very familiar with you.
Your reputation precedes you. So it's, it's really quite an honor. Thank you for having me.
J.J. Peterson: So let's dive into this. You have written a series of books that really are on what you call the Go-Giver philosophy.
[00:03:46] The Mindset Shift From Getting to Giving
Bob Burg: Yeah, so the Go-Giver is a, it's a, a, as you said, it's a series a co-author with John David Mann, who is really the lead writer in storyteller Mo.
Most of them are parables, all but one is a, a parable. Uh, and he, he's just a. Brilliant, brilliant writer. I, I'm a how-to guy. I'm step one, step two, step three, and I'm, I'm the boring guy. But we, we got together on this with the idea that, um, the marketplace was ready to, to, to hear a, a basic message that you can be a, a good well-meaning person who has a desire to bring value to others.
And earn a really healthy income, not despite that, but because of it. And this is really where it all begins. Shifting your focus from getting to giving. Now, when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others. Understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting business, it is the most financially profitable way as well.
But I think this is an important part right here. This is not for any kind of way out there, magical, mystical type of reasons. Oh, just be a good person and do good and good things. No, it's not that. It's actually very rational, it's very logical and it ties very much into human nature when you are that person.
Who can shift your focus off of yourself and place it on serving others, discovering their needs, their wants, their desires. People feel good about you, right? They feel great about you. They want to get to know you. They like you, they trust you. They want to be in relationship with you. They want to do business with you, and they want to tell.
The world about you. They want to be what we call your personal walking ambassadors. Now, the key is this is done with a genuine heart of really wanting, and I know that's your audience. Okay, so, so yeah, what, you know, what we like people like that to know is yes, you can be yourself. Right.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah. It's so funny because it, it seems so, like obvious.
Why is it not, why, like, why do people not just naturally go, yeah. If I offer more value, people will give me more money. Why? Why is that a hard thing to grasp?
[00:06:03] Where Our Negative View of Sales Comes From
Bob Burg: Because as human beings, we are all run by an unconscious operating system called the belief system. Uh, again, it's unconscious. It was given to us before we could, we, we, you know, had the wherewithal to be able to question premises and so forth.
And what have we always heard, seen, learned, whatever about, and sometimes experienced about salespeople that they're exactly as you were talking about them. This is why when people say. Well, you know, I could never sell or I, I don't like selling. It's not that they don't like selling, it's, they don't like what they think selling is, because if you believe that selling is about trying to convince a person to buy something they don't want or need, by the way, that is not selling.
That's called being a con artist, right? If you believe that selling, of course, you don't wanna do that. If you have any kind of moral values that you're, you're living by selling by definition. Is simply discovering what the other person does need, want, or desire. And helping them to get it. You know, one of the things when John and I were writing the follow up to the Go-Giver, Go-Giver, sell more, John's a wordsmith.
So you, you can't like take a word in him, not know the definition 'cause he'll like study it and do this whole thing. So he looked at the history of the word selling and one of the things he found is the old English, uh, um, word for cell was lan, which, which actually meant to give. When you're selling, you are giving.
Now someone might say, well, wait a second. I, you know, that's clever and everything. Selling, giving lan, you know the word, whatever. But what are you really selling when you're giving, what are you really giving rather when you're selling? Okay.
[00:07:49] What You’re Really Giving in a Sales Conversation
Bob Burg: Let's say that you are that, uh, diamond salesperson. You have a customer, a prospective customer in front of you.
Okay, you are in a sales conversation and, and go giver land. We never use the word pitch. You're not pitching something. A pitch is something you do in baseball. It's something you do to someone to strike them out, not to help them. Okay? So, no, we have a sales conversations. Okay? And so you're in a sales conversation with this potential customer, okay?
Regarding your, your diamonds, what are you, you're, so, you're selling. So what are you giving? What are you actually giving them in this sales conversation? Well, we suggest you're giving them time, attention, counsel, education, empathy, and ultimately exceptional value. So if you see sales as being that now you can totally reframe the experience and see selling not as a necessary evil to what I have to do.
But something that's helpful. To another.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah. And, and because it is, right? Like if I'm at that jewelry store, it's 'cause I want a gift. Right? You're right. I want something either for myself or somebody else. That's the thing that people often, I think, lose sight of as well. If I'm showing up on a phone call, if I'm showing up at your office, if I'm showing up, responding to an email, setting an appointment in your store to buy jewelry, it's because I want it.
I want it, otherwise I wouldn't be there. Right? If you showing up at my door as a vacuum salesman, that's something different. But if I'm showing up at your store, I want to walk out of there with something that makes me happy and I'm excited to give somebody else. And I do like I, I've never heard somebody say a pitch is something that you do to strike somebody out.
Right. That's actually. That's really interesting.
Bob Burg: Right. If we're, if we're talking about singing somebody's, you know, the Oh, that's fine. Or if we're talking about a roof, you know, the angle of a roof. Okay. You can say pitch. But when we have our, in our clientele and our members of the community, we never use the word pitch for.
Yeah. If anything, you know, you could say. Sharing information instead of, you know, I'm, oh, I'm gonna pitch that person. It might be, I'm gonna share with that person. I'm gonna have a sales conversation with that person. My friend John Ray calls it a value conversation with that person. There's all sorts of, but you know, when you said about the exchange of money, that's fine.
That's, that's part of it. But what we say is that money is simply an echo of value, right? It's the funder, if you will, to values lightning, which means your focus. Is on the value you're providing, the money you're receiving is simply a result of that value.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah. 'cause I, I've, I heard you say, you know, it's not about the numbers.
The numbers actually are a reflection of, or a result of you caring for people. Mm-hmm. When you show up and you provide value and you care for people, the numbers will follow. But the reality is it's not about the numbers. And if we're most honest, you know, one of the examples I always use is. Uh, is CarMax, right?
So if I'm going to buy a used car, I can go to a local car lot and I will actually find the exact same car I could find at CarMax for probably about two to $3,000 cheaper. They charge less at the local car dealership. CarMax, when you show up, you're not haggling. You're having a good experience. You know you're not buying a lemon.
So the value they bring to the sales process is different than the used car lot.
[00:11:19] Why Experience Matters More Than Price
Bob Burg: So yeah, this is where it's so important for people to understand and people who are selling a product, a service, whatever, for you to understand the difference between. Price and value because price is a dollar figure. It's a dollar amount.
It's it's finite. It simply is what it is. It's the price of a thing. Value on the other hand, is the relative worth or desirability of a thing, of something to the end user or beholder. In other words, what is it about this thing? Product, service, concept, idea, what have you, that brings so much worth or value to them that they will willingly exchange their money for it and feel great.
About it. And that's key. While you also make a healthy profit,
J.J. Peterson: it, it's also, as you're saying, it also just reminds me too, so I keep, for some reason, I'm really, I love, I loved your illustration about pitch and I was thinking of other areas that we use the word pitch besides sales, and one of the things I was thinking about is even this works in the term of for leaders who are, would normally, the word I would use is.
Pitch to your team a new idea in that meeting. If I'm trying to move an entire team on a project. I don't just show up and go, I have to convince them to do it my way. I actually have to show up in a way that provides value for them and shows the value for them of moving forward so that they actually enter into it as well.
And same thing, when they buy into that, they win. And I win as a leader. It's not just about sales, it's about influence as well,
E.
Bob Burg: Exactly. Exactly. And that's, you know, that's the difference between. Uh, you know, push and pull, right? You know, push is compliance, pull is earning commitment.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah.
Bob Burg: And so key, and you earn this commitment, uh, by again, asking questions and really discovering what it is that that moves that other person.
Right. And, and as a leader you tie what moves them into also your idea about the product or service. When you can bring the two of those together, that's when you have buy-in. And, you know, one of my great friends, a wonderful leadership speaker, uh, her name is Dhi Kuchi, she says, when it comes to, to sales, leadership, influence, what have you, she says, compliance will never take you where commitment can go.
Commitment.
J.J. Peterson: That's a good say that. Can you say that again for me? For everybody listening,
Bob Burg: her name is Dhi Kuci. It's uh, S-C-U-M-A-C i.com. Don dondi kuci.com. She, she's brilliant and just as wonderful a person as she is. Brilliant. And she says, compliance will never take you where commitment can go.
J.J. Peterson: Oh my gosh, that's so good.
And, and I really do. You can't, you can't get that commitment without showing up this way. Both in, in sales, both in leadership and all. I, I just very much believe you may get compliance, but that's not gonna bring long-term solutions. It's not gonna bring long-term happiness or, or all, uh, all of that. So that, that's beautiful.
[00:14:34] Why This Applies Beyond Sales
J.J. Peterson: I think everybody listening can just clearly see why you're here, because you're like speaking to our hearts in all of this. As you're, as you're, and, and especially, you know, for those of us who've come from the StoryBrand world, this is really just showing up as a guide, right? That's what it means, is that's exactly, is that whoever you're leading, whoever you're selling to your customers, they are the hero of the story, and you're showing up as a guide.
So how do you show up with, like you said, empathy with value? With solving a problem for them and use that language and in your products and also in the way you market in order to help them discover a way forward in their own life, get something they already want. What are some really, if people are listening to this and they're like, yeah.
This is how I wanna show up in sales. This is how I wanna show up in leadership. What are some really practical things that you can tell people to do? Like if even today they're about to get on a phone call in a half hour, or they're about to lead a meeting in a half hour, what's something you could say, here's, here's something you could do right now to shift your mentality and how you show up in those conversations.
[00:15:37] What Empathy Looks Like in Practice
Bob Burg: Well, I mean, one of 'em, let's say for example, we're taking, uh, we take empathy. Okay? Now, what is empathy? Uh, by definition it's the identification with or vicarious experiencing of another person's feelings. Okay? But there's a challenge there, okay? We don't necessarily know how they feel. We're not them. We haven't had their same experiences.
We don't go. Right. The neat thing is in order to really communicate empathy, you don't have to know exactly how they feel. You simply have to understand their feeling something and that this something is stressful to them. And you communicate not just through, you know, sure, through what you say and how you say it, but really just how you show up.
You communicate that you are there for them, with them on their side to work through it. Now you, you get this, you have this type of empathy by paying attention and listening to both what they say and also what they don't say. Right. Asking questions and you know the questions to ask because you know your market, you've done research about this particular person, and you're asking 'em, you're listening, right?
And as you do that, that's how that empathy really kicks in. Uh, and it's not, it, it, it's, it's making sure you don't try to see their world. From your eyes, right? Because it just doesn't work that way. Again, we're, we're all subject to our own set of unconscious beliefs. The way we see the world, the biggest mistake we can make is thinking that the way we understand the world is the way someone else understands the world.
That's why when, you know, when I said about value, it's always in the eyes of the beholder, right? Value is by definition, value is relative. Okay? So what, you know, what we think is a value? Might not be what they think of as a, uh, you know, a value. It might mean nothing to them, or it might mean everything to them.
We don't know until we ask and we really discover, and that's where empathy really kicks in. So, you know, so I was gonna say one thing. It would mean make sure you really have that shift of focus in mind. Right. Uh, you know, one of the things I used to say, and I said it, you know, half jokingly, but when I used to speak at sales conferences, I, I'd often begin by saying, nobody's gonna buy from you because you have a quota to meet.
Right. They're not gonna buy from you because you have a goal. They're not gonna buy from you because you need the money. Hey, they're not even gonna buy from you just 'cause you are a really nice person and I know you're a really nice person. No, they're gonna buy from you because they believe that ultimately they'll be better off by doing so than by not doing so.
So we've always gotta remember that, you know, Dale Carnegie taught us that right in 1936. And how to win friends and influence people. People do things for their reasons. Not our reasons.
J.J. Peterson: So even just showing up and saying things like, I understand how frustrating this can be. You know, just like when you're recognizing that there is a frustration that is driving the desire, you know, or saying, you know, I get it.
So many of our customers deal with this, and it's because you've heard them say, you know, you've, you've asked the questions. And, uh, you know, especially I think in this AI world, we're looking for that human connection even more than ever. Well,
Bob Burg: you know, something, I, I think you hit it right on the head in today's day of ai.
That personal connection is even more important than it ever, and it was always important. Okay. I, you know, I've always said, and I've been saying this since my first book, endless Referrals back in 1994, and I was saying it before that I, in, in that my, my. I guess one saying, ha has always been all things being equal people will do business with and refer business to those people they know, like, and trust.
Okay. And we live in a low trust society. Stephen MR Covey, son of Dr. Stephen Covey, uh, who wrote Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Stephen Ammar Covey wrote a, a wonderful book years ago, one of many books he's written, um, called The Speed of Trust. And, you know, he talked about, uh, trust being the one thing.
Excuse me, I didn't mean to turn my back on you, so please pardon me. Grab his book.
J.J. Peterson: Look how marked up it is. Look how marked up it is. That's amazing. Oh,
Bob Burg: yeah. Oh, it's, uh, such a wonderful book and some of the things, you know, a few of the, and that you know that trust is everything and it's lacking. You know, nowadays people don't know if this is.
Uh, if, if, if it's AI or if it's real, right? So that trust isn't he, you know, he a, a few thoughts from him, if I may just share.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah.
[00:20:21] Why Even Perfect Communication Fails Without Trust
Bob Burg: Uh, he writes, take communication in a high trust relationship. You can say the wrong thing and people will still get your meaning. Of course, they know you, they like, they know what you mean.
Right. In a low trust relationship, you can be very measured, very precise, and they'll still misinterpret you. Wow. Trust is so important.
J.J. Peterson: That literally happened to me this morning. I was texting a friend who, uh, uh, I decided to kind of challenge a little bit Uhhuh, and we were texting back and forth and I was being very, very specific.
And then she actually said, Hey, let's just hop on a call here. And we hopped on a call and, and the assumption was, I know you, you know me. This challenge comes from a place of a good heart,
Bob Burg: right?
J.J. Peterson: And I. We wanted that to be true. But then you just go, well, I don't know if this is, if she's gonna see, receive it this way.
We got on a phone, we were laughing. There was no conflict at all. Sure. But because there was a chance for that, we're just like, Hey, we know each other. Let's get on a call. And when you have that, you can assume highest intent. With, with the conversation, and I think, again, when we're going into sales conversations, a lot of times we're assuming the lowest intent, you know, that they're trying to rip me off.
But when you can establish that sense of trust and connection and you, you don't have to be their best friend, right? Like some of the greatest mentors and even my favorite salespeople, they're not my friends. They are people who I trust to lead me in this specific area, yes, to solve a problem. I think that's also a thing people confuse with empathy.
You're not trying to get them to like you, right? It's not a matter of I don't need people to love me and be my best friend. And if I'm trying to make that happen, then it's also gonna feel a little swarmy because they know that I'm there to sell 'em a car, right? So I don't need you to be my best friend.
I don't need you as my salesperson to be my best friend. But I do need to be able to, to trust you. I need to, and build into that connection.
Bob Burg: I need to be able to, I need to be able to trust you. And that is, and that is the key. Uh, 1, 1, 1 more quote if I can. That Yeah. This is from, from Gandhi. It was in, it was in the, uh, the, the speed of trust.
Mahatma Gandhi said, the moment there is suspicion about a person's motives, everything he does becomes tainted. Yes. Right? So it, so this goes back to, you know, uh, Mr. Miller's reframe of the guide instead of the hero. Okay. We, we need to trust our guide. Now we do know them, and we probably do like them, but again, that doesn't mean we're besties.
J.J. Peterson: Exactly.
Bob Burg: Okay. Exactly. Uh, you know, all things being equal, you still want to, you know, you'd rather like a person than hate a person, but, you know, yes. It doesn't have to be best friends. We just, but we do need to respect them. We need to trust them and know that they have our wellbeing at heart. So everyone who's watching this, who's your customer?
Who's you in your circle? Right? And, um. You know, I mean, we're, we're really speaking to these people who are very much like us, and these people want to feel that they are bringing value to the lives of everyone they touch. And, and, and you can do that, and you can do that and make a good living. Again, not, not in spite of being that good, caring person, but because of it.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah.
Bob Burg: And that's, that's what's what's so key.
J.J. Peterson: Yeah. You and I, I think we could talk all day about this. Absolutely. Because we just, right on the same wave, same wavelength. So it just, this whole val, this whole mindset shift about offering value instead of being a commodity, it really has taken so much weight off of my shoulders and I know that it will for everybody that's listening, whether they are in sales, specifically marketing.
Or just leadership. When you show up in this way, I think it changes everything. Um, if people want to know more about you and read more of your books and hear more of your speaking, where can they go find you?
Bob Burg: Uh, pretty much everything is at Berg, and that's BUR g.com. And while they're there, if they'd like, they can subscribe to my Daily Impact, uh, Substack.
J.J. Peterson: Well, thank you very much. I, so go to BUR g.com and, um, subscribe to the substack, get this valuable information every single day so that you can really show up and serve people in a way that offers a ton of value and doesn't feel gross to be honest in the process, and also provides more success for you and for them.
Bob, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here today, and thank you for being a badass softie and helping other peoples be a badass softie as well. Uh,
Bob Burg: thank you Dr. Peterson. This has been a really an honor. Thank you for having me.
[00:25:02] Reframing Sales as Service
J.J. Peterson: I could have talked to Bob for hours. We just align on so many ways and, and, uh, changing the way that I approach conversations and thinking of it in terms of being a go giver.
Has been so key for me, and it really is. You know, we talked a little bit about it in the podcast, but it's really all about how in our StoryBrand world, the world I come from and story is showing up as a guide. How do you show up in a way in the story that your customer's living to where you're not in a competing story with them, right?
Your customers the hero of their story. You are the hero of your story, and if you are in. Those stories separately, you are in competing stories, but if you can show up as a guide in your customer story, that's how you win. And if you need help doing that for your brand, showing up in your marketing or in your sales as a guide for your customer, inviting them.
Into a story where they win and you win. You can hire me. Just go to dr jj peterson.com, dr jj peterson.com, and I can actually help you in your sales conversations and in your marketing collateral. Position yourself as a guide who shows up with empathy. And able to articulate the value you offer in a way that helps your customer win.
And the big kind of aha for me today was, I, I brought it up multiple times in the conversation, is changing my own mentality about the word pitch. I, anytime that I show up now and think, oh, I need to pitch this, I want to change that word in my mind to say, how do I show up and deliver? Value. And I think for you, anytime you have a moment where you are having to pause and go, oh, I need to pitch this.
I don't feel like pitching this. Change it. Change your mentality. Show how do I show up? And instead of pitching something, show people the value that they're going to get. Out of this conversation, out of this transaction, out of this relationship. Because when we do, when we show up in that way, he said it over and over again.
It's not only a kind and human way to show up in the world, but it's how both you and your customers and the people you are leading win. This is the way to do it. So let me leave you with this. May you walk into every conversation, not trying to win, but ready to understand. 'cause may your first instinct be curiosity and asking those questions not control so that people can feel seen when they sit across from you.
May you let go of the need to pitch and instead choose to give value. And may you never forget that the numbers will follow. Because when you truly care for people, when you show up with empathy and generosity, success has a way of finding you. Because we believe you can be both ambitious and kind, fun and driven, powerful and deeply human.
Your leadership can inspire your success, can have soul, and your ambition can make space for everyone. That's why you are a badass. Soft. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. Follow and subscribe so you don't miss an episode.