The Best Marketing Starts With Service
Marketing feels uncomfortable for a reason. Most business owners aren't thinking about the people they're trying to help—they're thinking about themselves. In this conversation, Dr. J.J. Peterson and StoryBrand guide Matt Wolfe explore the surprising lesson Broadway taught about authentic communication, why you can't out-Oprah Oprah, and how marketing becomes easier the moment it stops feeling like a performance.
Prefer to listen? Press play below.
Marketing Stops Feeling Hard When You Stop Watching Yourself
Most people do not walk into an important meeting thinking only about how they can help. They also wonder how they will be perceived. Did they explain the idea clearly? Do they sound confident? What happens if someone asks a question they cannot answer? Do they even belong in the room?
Those questions follow business owners into sales calls, presentations, videos, and every piece of content they create. A LinkedIn post gets rewritten until it no longer sounds natural. A video is recorded several times in an attempt to sound more polished. A simple explanation becomes complicated because the person delivering it is trying to prove that they deserve to be heard.
Somewhere in that process, marketing stops being about the person who needs help and becomes an ongoing evaluation of the person doing the communicating.
That tension sits at the center of Dr. J.J. Peterson’s conversation with StoryBrand guide and former Broadway actor Matt Wolfe. Their discussion explores why so many leaders struggle to sound like themselves and why the solution is not simply becoming more confident. It is shifting the focus away from performance and toward service.
When Sounding Like Someone Else Becomes the Problem
Before Wolfe began helping businesses clarify their brands, he spent twenty-five years working in professional theater. Learning to sound like other people was not a side effect of the work. It was part of the job.
“I’ve always been really good at sounding like other people,” he told Peterson.
As an actor, that ability was useful. Each role required him to study another voice, physicality, personality, and way of moving through the world. Years of performing made him highly skilled at recognizing the details that made a character believable and reproducing them convincingly.
The habit did not disappear when he left the stage. As Wolfe moved into leadership, coaching, and brand strategy, he noticed that he was still borrowing pieces of other people’s voices. He admired effective speakers and communicators, so he would unconsciously absorb their phrasing or delivery. The result might sound polished, but it was not entirely his.
That same instinct shows up often in business. Leaders study successful companies, follow respected experts, and begin adopting the language that seems to work for everyone else. They are not necessarily trying to be dishonest. Most are trying to become more effective. Yet the more they imitate the style of the people they admire, the harder it becomes for anyone to hear what is distinct about them.
Wolfe eventually realized that people did not need another version of a communicator they already knew. They needed his perspective, expressed in his own voice.
The Question That Followed Him Onto Broadway
One of the most revealing stories Wolfe shares begins on what should have been one of the most affirming nights of his life. After decades in professional theater, he made his Broadway debut in Scandalous. The performance happened on his birthday, in a legendary theater, surrounded by people who had already built significant careers on the stage.
From the outside, it looked like proof that he had earned his place. Internally, however, one question kept surfacing: Did he really belong there?
That question did not belong only to Wolfe. Peterson had encountered his own version of it when he was invited to speak at an event alongside Oprah Winfrey, Simon Sinek, and other widely recognized names. Looking at the lineup, he found himself wondering what he could possibly contribute in a room filled with people whose voices were already so established.
The reminder he received was simple: “If you’re there, you belong there.”
Wolfe understood the tension immediately. There was no value in Peterson trying to sound like Oprah or imitate the other speakers on the program. As Wolfe put it, “You can’t out-Oprah Oprah.”
The audience already had access to Oprah’s voice and Simon Sinek’s perspective. Peterson’s responsibility was not to compete with either of them. It was to offer the experience, insight, and point of view that had earned him a place in the room.
The lesson was not that comparison disappears once someone becomes successful. It was that comparison becomes less useful the moment the focus returns to service. Peterson did not need to prove that he belonged by becoming more like the people around him. He needed to contribute what only he could bring.
What Theater Teaches About Serving an Audience
Wolfe’s years in theater taught him that a performer cannot fully control an audience. An actor can prepare, commit to the role, and deliver the story honestly, but cannot determine how every person will respond.
Onstage, Wolfe had a choice. He could monitor the room and measure every laugh, silence, or reaction, or he could remember the reason he was there. His responsibility was not to manufacture a specific emotional response from every person. His responsibility was to give them the story.
“The story is the gift,” he explained.
That distinction has direct implications for marketing. Business owners often approach communication as though their job is to produce a guaranteed outcome. They try to find the sentence that will make someone buy, the video that will convince every skeptic, or the presentation that will remove all uncertainty.
Peterson offers a different frame. Marketing is not the act of manipulating people into wanting something they do not need. At its best, it helps people understand a problem they are already facing and recognize that a useful solution exists.
Once that becomes the purpose, the communicator’s job changes. The goal is no longer to control the audience. The goal is to communicate clearly enough for the right people to understand what is being offered and decide whether it is for them.
That is why marketing can be viewed as an act of service. Clear communication respects the audience. It reduces confusion, makes the value easier to understand, and helps people make better decisions.
Strong Choices Make a Message Clearer
Another idea Wolfe brings from theater is the importance of making strong choices. An actor cannot enter a scene vaguely committed to several possible interpretations at once. The scene requires intention. The performer has to decide what the character wants, how the character will pursue it, and then commit to that choice.
Vague choices make a performance difficult to believe. Specific choices give the scene energy and direction.
Businesses face the same challenge when they communicate. Many want to talk about every service, capability, advantage, value, and audience at the same time. They are afraid that choosing one clear message will make the company seem too narrow or leave something important out.
The result is often technically accurate but difficult to remember.
Peterson has explored that tension throughout this marketing series. In Why Customers Don’t Remember Your Business, he challenged companies to stop confusing a long list of differences with a memorable message. In The Hardest Marketing Decision You’ll Make, he examined what happens when a business finally chooses the audience it is best equipped to serve.
Wolfe’s theater experience adds another layer to those ideas. Clear marketing requires commitment. A business has to make a strong choice about who it is helping, what problem it is solving, and what it wants to be known for. That choice does not make the message boring. It gives the message direction.
The Difference Between Performing and Serving
The central distinction in the conversation is not between good performance and bad performance. It is between performing and serving.
A performance-centered communicator is continually monitoring the self. How do I sound? Do they like me? Am I impressive enough? Is this working? The audience becomes a source of judgment, and every interaction becomes a test.
A service-centered communicator asks a different set of questions. What does this person need to understand? What problem are they trying to solve? How can this idea be made clearer or more useful?
That shift does not mean personality disappears. In fact, Wolfe’s experience suggests the opposite. When people stop trying to sound like everyone they admire, their actual voice becomes easier to hear.
Authenticity, in this context, is not self-expression for its own sake. It is what allows the right people to recognize the person, perspective, or business that can help them. A borrowed voice may sound impressive, but it makes that recognition harder.
This is also why business-to-business marketing cannot afford to become so polished and impersonal that it forgets the people involved. Regardless of the size of the organization or complexity of the sale, the communication is still being received by human beings. They are listening for clarity, relevance, and trust, not simply corporate language.
Four Words That Redirect the Focus
Before stepping onto a stage or entering an important room, Wolfe uses four words to reset his attention: give, love, play, and thank you.
Each word interrupts the instinct to monitor himself. Give reminds him that he is there to contribute rather than prove himself. Love directs his attention toward caring for the people in front of him. Play allows him to participate with energy and curiosity instead of treating the moment as a test he might fail. Thank you brings him back to gratitude for the opportunity to do meaningful work.
Peterson immediately recognized the value of the practice and told Wolfe he planned to borrow it.
The four words work because they do not ask the fear to disappear before the work begins. Wolfe can still feel nervous, notice comparison, or hear the old question about whether he belongs. The words simply give him something more useful to focus on.
Together, they summarize the movement of the entire conversation: away from self-consciousness and toward contribution.
Marketing Becomes Easier When the Focus Changes
By the end of the discussion, the discomfort surrounding marketing looks different. It is not always caused by a lack of skill, confidence, or content. Often, it grows from paying too much attention to the person speaking and too little attention to the person listening.
That does not mean preparation is unnecessary. Wolfe’s career in theater was built on preparation, discipline, and repeated practice. It means those tools are meant to support the story, not become a way of controlling the audience or proving the speaker’s worth.
The same principle applies to marketing. A business still needs a clear message, a defined audience, and a strong point of view. But once those pieces are in place, the goal is not to perform the message perfectly. The goal is to offer it clearly and honestly to the people it is meant to serve.
The natural next step is not producing more content. It is clarifying what that content needs to communicate.
Dr. J.J. Peterson’s free One-Liner Worksheet helps business owners define who they help, the problem they solve, and the result they offer. It turns a broad explanation into a clear statement that allows the right people to understand the value quickly.
That work connects directly to the other conversations in this marketing series. A business becomes more memorable when it chooses what it wants to be known for. Its message becomes stronger when it decides who it is truly for. And the act of communicating becomes more natural when the focus shifts from impressing that audience to serving it.
The best marketing does not require someone to become a more polished version of another person. It requires the clarity to know what they have to offer and the courage to offer it in their own voice.
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[00:00:00] Why Marketing Feels So Hard
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Your voice is your superpower. Who you connect with, that's your superpower. It's what differentiates you in the market. And when you can lean into that unique voice, it not only helps your business grow, it helps you as a leader grow, but it becomes your superpower.
Welcome to Badass Softie, a podcast for leaders who are unapologetically ambitious and want to lead with heart because you're allowed to chase big goals without losing what makes you human. I'm your host, Dr. JJ Peterson, and today I am talking with my friend Matt Wolf. Matt is a partner and director of brand strategy at Brand Three.
He's one of the most experienced story brand consultants in the world. I've known Matt for quite a while, and he is an incredible marketer, yes, but he also has a unique perspective that he brings to the marketing world that he and I geek out a little bit over. Because Matt is a former professional theater actor, director, writer.
He was even on Broadway, which we talk about in the episode today, and he spent decades learning the craft of storytelling and how stories move people. Because whether you're on a stage or you're leading a company or a team, or launching a business, trying to communicate an idea, put a marketing plan together, the challenge is often the same.
How do you show up authentically with your voice and connect with the right people that you specifically are trying to serve? So in this conversation, we talk about the surprising connection between theater and marketing, why clarity matters so much, and how finding your voice is often the key to finding your audience.
We also talk about something that I'm really passionate about, and that's really about thinking of marketing and clear communication in terms of not just a way to sell an idea, but as a service to your audience And we also talk about Oprah, which is fun. Um, so I'm excited for you to hear this conversation.
It really was, for me, a refreshing reminder that great marketing isn't manipulation, it's service. So I am so excited for you to hear my conversation today with Matt Wolf. Matt, welcome to the show. I am so excited you're here. Um, I wanted to have you on Badass Softie because, uh, you and I have been around each other for quite a while through the StoryBrand community.
You know, we've been a guide and been a part of things, and we've, uh, you know, said hello and been in passing. And then you and I were together, uh, um, I don't know, now a couple months ago at a workshop, and we sat down and, um- Mm-hmm ... we're late going back to the workshop because we couldn't stop talking.
Matt Wolfe: That's right.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: We're like... Other people are like, "Hey, you guys, you guys, we gotta go." And I was like, "No, but there's so much more." Because you and I- ... connected on, I mean, a million different things, but, like, on theater and on marketing and on the humanity and how to be a good human and all these things. And I left our conversation so inspired and wanted to make sure that not only did we continue the conversation, but other people got to be a part of it as well.
Because I think what you have to share is so important, and you're so good at what you do that I wanted to not only continue the conversation for myself, but I wanted others to be a part of it as well. So I am so excited for you to be here today. I really believe you truly are a badass softie, and I'm so honored that you would be here with me today.
Matt Wolfe: Wow. Thank you, JJ. I, uh, I'm just grateful to be here. I'm grateful that we get to spend more time together and continue where we left off the other day. I, I kind of knew we had several things in common, um, and, and I didn't realize how much until, until that lunch- Yeah. So I'm excited.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: It was so fun. And so, uh, let's, let's bring some people into this conversation.
So w- Yeah ... you know, you and I are both, uh, theater lovers. We have background in theater, and, you know, now you're doing marketing. But let me... L- I'd love to go back and just talk about, like, tell me about your life in theater and Broadway and everything before, before your marketing agency. What was your life before this?
Matt Wolfe: It, it was a lot more, uh, unpredictable. 'Cause you never know where the next gig is coming from. Uh huh. But I spent 25 years in professional theater, and, and marketing was like, every artist has a side gig, so marketing was my side gig for a while, that sort of rose up and then took over. Um, but it, it was really ac- There's, everything behind me is, like, shows that I did that were meaningful to me here.
But the bottom line was I was a storyteller. I got to do it from every angle. I was an actor, director, educator working with kids, which was probably my favorite thing to do. I tried writing. You know, I did all the different things. Um, I was learning how to tell stories, and I was learning it at a really high level because I ended up...
Uh, I lived in Seattle, near Seattle most of my career- And Broadway was coming out here to workshop shows. So I got to work with all these Broadway teams and see at that level of stress and investment and expense how they were trying to put a show together and how they get developed the new musicals and, and then I got to go to Broadway and do one.
I mean, I kinda got to see it all. So I bring all that storytelling work now to help businesses grow. But more than that, like, like at, at, at Brand Three where I'm a partner now, we're looking for people who have a heart for service. We're looking for people who care deeply, you know, see themselves as difference makers.
And so I get to back those people up with what I learned, and I like that a lot.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: See, uh, for people listening who know me at all, every single thing you just said, they're like, "Oh, yep, that's JJ. Oh, yep, that's JJ. Oh, yep, that's JJ." 'Cause, you know, uh, same, same world is that, you know, m- when I was drawn into film and television and, uh, you know, theater, it really was about telling stories.
And so for some people they're like, "Wait a minute, you were an extra on The Office and now you work with Microsoft and tell them how to brand?" You know, it's like, that feels like a gigantic- ... leap between the two. It's like this huge left turn. All of a sudden you quit being, quote-unquote, an artist and became a marketer and a business person.
And the reality is, the way that I show up in marketing only exists because of my background in the storytelling and the PhD that I got in storytelling, and the teaching I did in storytelling, and the acting, and the e- I would not be drawn to marketing at all as a, as a brand, uh, as a, as an industry or a job if I wasn't also still drawn to this storytelling world.
And I think a lot of people see it as like, oh, you're an artist or you're in business. You know, and then they're like, well, when you create websites, that's kind of art and design, and they see that. But the truth is, you and I both know that marketing in its purest, and I would say most beautiful form, is storytelling.
What do you see, like, what do you feel like you learned from theater that translates directly into, or your wor- life in the theater space w- that translates directly into the marketing world?
Matt Wolfe: So many things. Before I do that, I just wanna say, 'cause I don't think you know this, you were a big part of my StoryBrand journey.
'Cause when I got to Nashville and I was scared out of my boots about taking this new leap in life that you just described, right? From theater to mar- I felt like the theater kid that snuck into the marketing world, but there you were on stage and sharing your story, and so good at what you do, and I was like, "Okay.
Someone else made the leap. I think I can do it, too." So just by example and being who you, who you are, it was so helpful to me in that moment and beyond. Um, but what, okay, but what I learned from theater. I mean, I, I lived in a, a, a soup, in a sea of empathy, of just learning how to un-
[00:08:44] Why Marketing Isn't a Performance
Matt Wolfe: The whole game was to understand why do people do what they do.
Why do they make the choices they do step by step? When I saw the StoryBrand framework and it said, "Who's your character? What do they want? What's the problem in the way? How are we gonna solve that for them?" That's the, the day-to-day work of being an actor and a director. Um, so that, that immediately clicked, but I think the other big thing, and it's really on my mind- Because we...
Okay, I didn't mean to plug my podcast, but we have a CEO's- We have a new podcast called the CEO's Heart for Service. Plug away. Plug
Dr. J.J. Peterson: away.
Matt Wolfe: Thank you. It's Brand Three has the CEO's Heart for Service. We're celebrating people with that heart and their stories of scaling and growth. Well, I just interviewed this gal named, uh, Wendy Pushbeg.
Wendy Pushbeg is the CEO of the Greater Everett Chamber of Commerce, which, and Everett, which is a city right next to me, they didn't have a chamber for 15 years. She just launched it. In a year and a half, they're up to 300 members. It's an incredible story. But, but the heart of what we discovered when we were talking to her was that they did that by listening first.
They were listening carefully and intently to all of the people around them, all of the businesses, everyone they were gonna serve, and because they're responding to that, that's really the secret sauce of why they're growing. And I say that 'cause you know as well as I do, and you, you know it even better than I do 'cause you spent so much time in improv, that you have to, all y- y- Good acting is really about listening.
You can plan and prepare all you want. You can think you know the story that you wanna tell, but if you're not in tune with the other person in the story on stage with you and listening to what they're giving you in that moment and responding to that, then you've, you've lost the whole ballgame. It's about active listening and responding to it.
And, and it's hard to do. It's har- it's hard for people to see the value of doing that, um, 'cause they just wanna keep moving forward, but that's how you know who you're really meant to speak to, like, who your actual best hidden opportunities in your client base are and who your ideal client really is.
It's how you know how to, how to craft a great brand script, you know, in story brand terms, and a, and a brand message. So I, I've brought that with me, too. So empathy, listening, and the value of community, and that we don't solve these things on our own.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I think all those things are things, again, why some of it was why I was drawn to theater, is because you, it really is about collaboration and listening and building something together and discovering motivation and kind of backstory and all this stuff that, that really when, when you are a marketer or y- y- you're communicating really at any level, like for leaders who want to step in and just lead a team meeting- Listening first of where the people that you're trying to communicate are, whether that's your customers or your team, and then actually having empathy to where they are and leaning in and then trying to figure out what is their motivation and what moves them, and then speak to that.
It's not ever, like, your story that you're trying to tell in marketing. You're really trying to invite people into a story that they get to be a part of. And if you're not listening and you don't have empathy and you're not trying to understand their motivation and their pain y- your sto- your marketing story is gonna be worthless.
And very honestly, if you're giving a speech on stage or you're leading a team meeting, whatever you're saying is gonna be worthless. You know, another thing, you mentioned the improv. One of the things that was really interesting to me about when I started looking back at my improv training and going into marketing is that one of the rules of improv really is that you have to show up and make a choice.
You have to show up with a point of view, that if you, like, are doing an, a scene and you're improvving a scene together, and somebody comes up to you and goes, "So where you going?" And you go, "Nowhere," the scene's dead, right? Because you're just like- Yeah. But if you... But you could say something incredibly outrageous.
You're going, "Oh, I'm going to the Taj Mahal." Well, now you have something to build off of and move forward. It doesn't mean that it was r- like the, quote-unquote, "right choice." It means that you showed up with a point of view and made a choice. You chose to have a voice in the scene and move the story forward.
The way stories move forward is with perspective, not with kind of this bland point of view. And so the things you're talking about with theater, how influential those have become in the way that I do marketing, uh, are just... I, I, we could, yeah, we could spend three hours, you and I, talking about-
Matt Wolfe: Mm-hmm ...
Dr. J.J. Peterson: all of this.
And, you know, I think one of the powerful things about it, too, is that, like, when you can, when you can do that for your customers. So you do that with the people that you work with, right? You're listening to them. You're hearing from them. How do you then... This, I'm, and I'm trying to figure out how to a- ask this question, but I'm just curious.
So, so there's one thing of where, like, you teaching them to show up and listen with empathy to their customers so that they can have a good message, but when you are listening to your customers and trying to develop their point of view, what are some things that you're listening for? How do you pe- h- I guess really bottom line what I'm asking is how do you help people show up with their voice in their marketing?
Like, not just, like, being bland in the market, but how do you actually help listen to them and help them show up with a voice like you would as a director?
Matt Wolfe: Mm-hmm. Um, it's funny. It, there's two things that come to mind. It's funny that you, um, use the phrase, uh, "Make strong choices." That's such a, that's such a theater kid phrase, you know?
Um, and it's, but I don't know that people realize why it's so important. Because, uh, and then so one of the big things you're gonna help the business owners do or the business leaders is make a strong choice about the story that they're telling. That starts with who they're speaking to, it starts with every step in the brand script if you're doing the brand messaging, one strong thing about what the character wants, one strong problem.
And, and the reason is because... So as an actor, I had to look at a script and I had to make a choice about what I was playing in that scene. I had to make a choice about what I wanted from the other person in the scene. The example I usually use, like, y- when you see bad acting, it's because people haven't made that choice.
Um, so it's like, it's like a scene about, uh, a divorce, let's say. So then i- if the two actors are just playing, "I'm really mad at you," and they're just doing this, it's, it just gets mushy and it's bad. But let's say that the wife makes a really specific choice that's like, "I want you, my husband, who this is about to end if we, if..."
Maybe not. You have to keep that threat ali- or that, that possibility alive in the scene. "But I want you, my husband, in this moment to admit that you've never really seen me," or, "I want you to admit that you've never, um, that you never lived up to the promise to give us the time that we were gonna spend together."
Or even if you just decide, "I want you to admit this is your fault," that's stronger, that's stronger than, "I'm mad at you." Well, the same thing applies to, to, uh, to messaging. Once you really dial in on this is the person we're talking to and this is their struggle and what they're up against, you're speaking with a specificity that really makes them feel heard and you have power over the storytelling.
We avoid making those choices 'cause we're worried about saying the wrong thing, but in the context of a brand strategy and in alignment with the right ideal client, you begin to gain confidence in those choices and confidence in, in what you're saying. So that's part of it, strong choices. But the other piece Then I...
[00:16:56] Every Business Has a Story Worth Telling
Matt Wolfe: And this is the Badass Softie piece of it. The other piece is, um, you're... One of the most important things I think we do in brand strategy work is to figure out what makes that business and the h- people who have the heart behind it unique. I have yet to meet a business that didn't ha- and I don't care how boring they think they are, if they're like people in finance, tech, things like this, they often think they're swimming in this sea of sameness, but there, there's a heart beating behind that whole thing, and there is a unique way that they wanted to make a difference in their industry and with the people who they serve, that they brought to the table.
And, and our job is to lift that up. And then when it's all said and done, my favorite part is just delivering the whole story and reading that brand... I call it the brand narrative piece. You know, when you put the whole story together. And at the end, a lot of times they'll say something like, "That's amazing.
How did you do that?" Or something, something nice. But I'm waiting for them to say whatever they say so I can turn it around back to them and say, "Um, thanks. This is your story. This is... You spent the last 10, 20, 30 years building this, crafting this, all of your blood, sweat, and tears, and care. I'm just the editor.
I just re-edit the story in a way that's gonna make it effective and help you grow and make money and do all those things that are important. But in this moment, let's celebrate what you've accomplished." And they're not getting that anywhere else That's, it's such an important moment that we get to provide, that all the way back to what you asked, is that then they have strong choices and they understand that someone has celebrated what makes them unique and special in what they've accomplished.
That gives them the courage to move forward and start to tell their story.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: It's so huge because y- y- you know, we talk a lot in the story brand world and marketing world about clarity, and I, and we tell people, "You have to, your message has to be clear." And I think what they think that means is it needs to be simple and, uh, maybe beige.
Simple and boring. Yeah. Because clear is often boring, to be very honest, and that, a- and that c- that's a g- not a bad start. Clarity is the key, but part of clarity is understanding who is your unique audience, and what is your unique voice, your unique heart to reach that audience. That's the next level of clarity.
So one clarity of, like, that you've already said, there's a clarity of I help people with marketing. That's like a clear, clear piece. But what you've articulated a couple different times here is we really help people who have good hearts who want to do good things and elevate their voice. So that's a specificity in the marketing space that's even more clear when you understand the people you want to work with, and it actually attaches you and connects you with the right audience.
Mm-hmm. And I think this is really key. It's, uh, uh, for a lot of people to hear right now because I would say, you know, going back to the c- some of the theater analogy a little bit is that- I think for many years, because of my theater background and my acting background, I was really great at mimicking other people's voices.
I could get on stage and I could be a character, and I could study people specifically and I could be like them. In fact, when I was a pastor- Yeah ... when I very first started preaching, I would listen to some of my favorite pastors' sermons and I would quote them word for word, 'cause I didn't have my own voice.
I didn't actually even at that time- Hm ... know who I was. Wow. And part of the work that I feel like I've done, in the last even 10 years, is recognizing that my voice is unique. And instead of seeing my personal voice as a liability, I've discovered that my personal voice is actually my superpower. And when I can understand that versus like learning how to look and be like everybody else, that's fine when I'm starting out.
To be very honest, I even tell young like comics and actors, "Sure, look at other people, and kind of begin mimicking them till you find your own voice." But in the beginning- Mm-hmm ... it's one thing. When you are a young brand, you're looking to other people for your voice. But as you grow in a, as a brand, and as you grow in leadership, your voice is your superpower.
Your voice, the uniqueness of it, and how you, and who you connect with, that's your superpower. It's what differentiates you in the market. It's what actually allows you to serve your customers and team better. And when you can lean into that unique voice and find that specificity, it not only helps your business grow, it helps you as a leader grow, but it becomes your superpower.
And that's not an easy thing for a lot of people to step into. I think for a lot of people they kind of go, "Well, I don't know if I'm worthy of putting my voice out there. What kind of audacity am I d- having by talking and like bringing my voice to the table? Oh, I'm better than everybody else?" You know.
And part of the work I think we do in marketing, weirdly enough, is actually helping people see, no, no, no, your voice is good And it's actually your superpower, so let's lean into that a little bit more. And I know you help people with that as well.
Matt Wolfe: You know, w- what I think about a lot... So theater is where I learned to overcome that kind of imposter syndrome thing that you're talking about, right?
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Oh, interesting. Tell me, tell me more about that.
[00:22:40] Finding Your Own Voice
Matt Wolfe: Yeah. Well, the central question that it presents is, do I belong here? It's a terrible question- Mm ... to have hanging over your head. Do I belong here? The image that comes to mind for me when I, when I think about that is when I was on Broadway. I got to do my first Broadway performance on my birthday.
October 13th, 2012. I'm on the Neil Simon Theatre, where all of these other shows and all these other legends have performed, and-
Dr. J.J. Peterson: And what show was it, by the way?
Matt Wolfe: Uh, it was... It's the one, it's the one that nobody knows what this is, but it's called Scandalous, 'cause it didn't last very long. But- ... it was called...
That's why this poster is behind me. So it was called Scandalous, and I'm on stage there as the new guy on Broadway, with Broadway veterans and even some legends on the stage. And because it's the first night, I know that out in the theater there are other Broadway legends and celebrities and producers and agents and all the things on the other side of that red curtain.
And so the overt- overture starts to play, and that question is, like, hanging over my head, like they lowered it from the flies or something, right? Like, do I really belong here? Um, and I had a choice to make. The choice... And it's a choice I had every night on stage, and luckily I was seasoned enough at that point to figure this out.
The choice that was always before me when I would step on stage is, am I gonna, out of fear tonight, step on stage and try and control how the audience responds to me, which is a fool's errand, or am I gonna live actually in a place of service? I'm gonna, I'm gonna remember my place is, here is just to give, and to live in a heart of service and give the story to people.
Uh, it was harder that night. You know, Broadway debut. But I looked around and I remembered- That I'd been through the same rehearsal process as everyone else in the room. I had been through the same audition process to earn my place there, right? We had all been on the same journey, and the only one on that stage, even the legends, who wasn't asking, "Does Matt belong here?"
Like, no one else was asking that question. I was the only one asking that question on that stage. So I did, along with resetting, I have, like, these words that go through in my mind to, like, reset for business meetings and performances and I, and I, and I went through this thing, and then I was able to have a blast and be in a place of service.
So it, it's, it-- To me, it's resetting that heart compass to a place of service is what helps you overcome The, the fear. Um, but part of what does that, honest to God, is having that story established and having that sense of what your worth is.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: It is true. Like, I think it... That's part of what I think allows me to show up with a little bit of audacity and courage, as well as going like, "This is actually isn't about me.
I'm here to serve." And when businesses and leaders can show up in that way, and define that story and say, "This is my voice. This is where I belong," then it actually is an incredible service. It's, it's kind of funny you, you mention that 'cause... So, um, just between you and me and nobody else that's listening, um, I am speaking at this conference.
[00:25:59] "If You're Here, You Belong Here"
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I got invited to be interviewed on stage at this conference. And, um, at the, the other people that they told me at the time who were gonna be there was, um, Simon Sinek, um, John McArthur, and Oprah Winfrey. So it's, uh, Simon, John, Oprah, JJ. And then when I went to do, like, a pre-call about this interview that I was gonna be doing, I asked the guy, you know, "So how's things going, getting prepared for this?"
And he's like, "Oh, it's good. You know, I'm just going back and forth between John Stamos's people and Mario Lopez's people." And I was like, "I'm sorry, what?" And the other two people that are gonna be interviewed on the stage in the same format that I am are John Stamos and Mario Lopez. So again- Oh my God
let me just say those names. John Stamos, Mario Lopez, Simon Sinek, John McArthur, Oprah, and JJ. And I was then sharing this with somebody and saying like, "H- I, I don't belong there." I literally said those words. I'm like, "What am I doing there?" And this person said to me... And by the way, they were cutting my hair.
This was at a barber shop. They go- ... "Hey, if you're there, you belong there." And it was, like, just this very simple phrase that was like, "If you are there, then you belong." Like, you've been invited. Oh my God. You've, you... And it just kind of sat me for a second because I was like, there's something that I, they have seen in me that i- that they believe is valuable enough for their people to invite me in to hear my voice in the midst of those other voices, to share and teach and learn and i- and offer my own perspective.
My perspective is different than Oprah's, and so they want that voice. Yeah. And I, you know, and there was a part of me that was going, "Well, why? I don't get why they want my voice," right? And that was where I was just kind of sitting back a little bit with me and going, those words were coming up, "I don't belong here.
I don't belong here with this group of people." And yet they saw something, and if I show up to that stage interview trying to be impressive and trying to be like them, trying to be like Oprah or Simon or John MacArthur, not only will I bomb, but I also will not be serving that audience. Because let Oprah- Yeah
be Oprah, let John be John, let Simon be Simon, let JJ be JJ. And if I show up with my unique voice and teach them and share from my experience, I actually in that moment become a servant of the audience, not of my own career, not of my own voice. But if I show up as my truest self, they get the most out of it.
And so, I, me shrinking in that moment does nothing- Mm-hmm ... in service to the audience. If I show up and be like, "Oh, my gosh, Oprah was here. What am I supposed to say?" Then no, that does nothing for them, and it does nothing for me. But when I can actually lean into my own voice there, and y- like you said, that, that piece of showing up with service, showing up to serve, now-
Matt Wolfe: Yeah
Dr. J.J. Peterson: whatever happens with me happens. I can't control. It's like what you said, that was beautiful, where I can't control what the audience does. Whether they hire me, whether they buy my book, whether they listen to the podcast, I cannot control that. What I can control is that I show up with my voice and serve.
And when I can do that, then ideally we all win.
Matt Wolfe: That is beautifully said. Yeah, you can't out-Oprah Oprah, so you've gotta find another path. You gotta, um-
Dr. J.J. Peterson: That may be the title of my next memoir. But what's- How I Out-Oprah'd Oprah.
Matt Wolfe: By being myself. Uh
Dr. J.J. Peterson: huh.
Matt Wolfe: Um, you know, and w- and what's so crazy about that is I would see that lineup, and I would think, "Oh my God, they're so lucky they have JJ there."
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Oh
Matt Wolfe: my gosh. Right? Because- Thanks ... and I'm always saying to people, like, if only you could see yourself as other people see you, and I don't know, I don't know, I can't...
I mean, I have no right to name your superpower, but I can share my observation of your superpower, and I think you're not only kind and compassionate, but I think you make room. This is what I think about you. I think you make room for people to be their best selves, to be authentic, and to feel invited to just find their way forward in the best way possible.
I don't know. It's, it's a rare and wonderful gift.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: That is very, very kind, and I will accept that and am honored that you said that because, um- ... and, and that's, I mean, truthfully why, again, as people are listening, of why I wanted to keep this conversation going. Not because you're complimenting me, but because-
I, that it was such a beautiful conversation that was really about, that was born out of your heart to, you know, like, talking about your experience and sharing where you came from and allowing me to connect with you on that, and then really parlaying that into us seeing, like, how this directly affects the way we show up in marketing, the way we show up in serving our clients, and really the types of voices we wanna put out there in the world, the people that we wanna help elevate and bring their voice to the top because to remind people you are good, you are worthy, you have a powerful voice.
You don't need to- Mm-hmm ... prove anything in that space. Like, let's not wa- let's not waste time proving that your voice is worthy. Let's start there and say, "You are, you are worthy. Now let's go get crap done." Like it's like, now let's connect with your audience. Let's change the world with that voice and with those products and with those services in a way that actually serves everybody.
Matt Wolfe: Yeah. The way, the way that I would... Do you wanna hear the words I used in theater to prep for- I
Dr. J.J. Peterson: was literally just gonna ask you that. Can you share with me what you, like, how you reset- Oh, re- ... yourself in that moment? Yeah.
Matt Wolfe: I call it hitting the reset button, and there were four words I would cycle myself through to just sit with for a minute one at a time.
And, and the first one relates to what you were saying m- just a minute ago about, about control. The first word was give. I'm here to give because I cannot control how these folks are gonna react. The second word was, a- and this sounds maybe a little woo- woo-woo to people in terms of business, but I really think it matters.
The second word was love. I am here to love these people because I'm here to serve them, and if I don't have love in what I'm doing, why am I, why am I even here? Also, I love what I do. Why wouldn't I? Um, the third word was play. Oh, right, I'm here to play. This is fun. I worked really hard to get here and to be able to do this.
And, and in a business sense, it's also, uh, um, it's a thing that i- that rises into the air that helps other people feel like they can do the same. And if you're in like a discovery meeting and that kind of thing, people need to feel the freedom to be open and explore new paths and say things they never said before And the last word was just, and it took me a while.
I didn't have this one at first, but I realized I wasn't saying... I was going on this, like, missional thing. I'm here to give, I'm here to give. I got all this figured out. But I just was forgetting to say thank you before I went on stage. I was like, "Well, thank you, because I get to be here. Oh my God, I get to be here and do this thing."
For me it was, I get to be in front of 1,000 people and sing and dance and wear these goofy costumes, and give people a little escape, a meaningful escape from their lives tonight. Let's go do it. But that is a very different mindset than do I belong here? What am I doing here? You know, all of that. And I think, to pull it back to marketing again, I think it's really important, 'cause, like, we're...
So we're, we're focused on B2B service providers at, at our firm, and they're all people. Like, if it's tech, if it's finance, they're people that are asking a business, like, "Can I take over your finances? Can I, can I take over your cybersecurity?" You know? These are high-stakes, high-trust, and usually high-ticket offers all built on relationship and trust.
And what that means is in our marketing strategies for these folks, we have to figure out how to be l- we have to stop thinking about digital and be more human in our marketing. And, and if anything, how can the digital marketing things that we're putting out there in that world lead to and catalyze and, and cause humans to connect?
Whether it's like what we're doing here, whether it's a conference, a networking event, whatever it's gonna be, the thing that's gonna bridge that trust gap and all those question marks is partly the messaging, but it's also when I get to see that other person across from me face to face and experience their genuine passion and care and concern and that heart we've been talking about the whole time.
If I can experience that from them, I'm gonna start to say at least, "Yeah, I should talk to them." And that's always the first big step, and then it just goes from there.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: I love that. And, and just, uh, the whole reframe of how we approach all of this and the human side and the, the, the heart side and the voice side is, I think, again, what a lot of people who maybe know they need to market, know they need to be on the, on the platforms promoting things, but it's like, ugh, I don't know how, or it doesn't always feel great to sell myself or sell my product, push people to buy something.
And it's like, well- Y- y- yes, I, I get that, but the other part is if you actually approach it from an understanding of, like, you have a unique place in the world, you have a unique way that you show up and serve people, and when you can communicate that in a way that the right people connect, you actually are serving them.
This is a gift you can give them. The reframe for that is so powerful, whether you're, again, getting up to give a talk, whether you're leading a team meeting, or in this case in particular, whether you're getting online to do some marketing to get people to buy your product or service. I think it's, it's...
For me, that is what keeps me going in this space, and what gets me excited about people like you, who are leading in this space of helping people kind of find their authentic voice and get out there. And so, um, uh, for people who maybe wanna, you know, like us, continue this conversation, I'd love... What- where's your podcast?
Where can they find your podcast?
Matt Wolfe: Oh, thanks. Yeah, the, The CEO's Heart for Service, hosted by me and Brand 3. Uh, it's on all the platforms, so Spotify, Apple. Um, you'll find it on, uh, YouTube as well, and then, uh, if you're on any of the other platforms, we're, we should be everywhere.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Love that. And then if any- and then if somebody wants to reach out to you in particular, where sh- where's a good place to reach out to you?
Matt Wolfe: Yeah, our website is Brand 3, so brand and the number 3 .net. And that's all it is, brand3.net.
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Love it. Well, thank you so much for this. The, just even the, the four words for me, the... If I'm saying this right, just again, give, uh, love, play, thank you, is such- Yeah ... I, I'm gonna be stealing that, and, um, we could do entire episodes just on tho- those four words.
Yeah. So, uh, I very much thank you for that gift, and for just sharing your heart and for being willing to, uh, come on and talk about it, and then also just what you do out in the world for people. It just makes me very excited that people get to work with you. So, thank you for being here, and thank you for being a Badass Softie.
Matt Wolfe: Thank you. Thank you for creating the space to have these kinds of conversations. The softness is strength, and if we can just figure that out, like We're gonna be all right.
[00:37:45] The Best Marketing Isn't About You
Dr. J.J. Peterson: Matt and I could have talked for hours about theater. In fact, we talked about off-camera, uh, how this weekend he is actually going to go to the Short Circuit 40th anniversary, the movie Short Circuit, um, 40th anniversary in Astoria, Oregon, which I am so jealous.
I wish I could be there. But he and I can geek out about movies and theater and story and marketing for hours and hours and hours, and the reason is, is because that's really what I try to bring to marketing. When I help companies with their marketing, I'm trying to find their unique story, their unique voice, because I believe that when we can discover that and we can put that out in the world on a website, in social media, in emails, that then we can connect with the audience who needs them the most.
So then not only is the company successful, but the people who they serve are successful as well. That's why I still do what I do. I mean, I help companies find their unique voice and put it into marketing, and I help thought leaders find their unique voice and turn it into books and podcasts and courses and webinars.
My whole... The whole reason that my company and why J- Dr. JJ Peterson works and exists in this world is to help people find their unique voice and connect with the right audiences. So I love that, and the, you know, there's so much I take away from today's conversation, but the biggest thing, I think, is reminding myself of where I want to always have my heart when I show up to serve clients.
It's really that. It's to be of service, and when I can see myself and my gifting and the products, the, the s- the consulting that I offer as a service to my client versus trying to impress them or trying to win more money or any of that, but really show up in service, that's when I feel the best about how I'm showing up, and also it's how I can actually help them the most.
And, you know, tho- those four words that Matt talked about helping were so powerful for me. I want to start using those as my own reset in those moments where I stou- start to doubt myself. The, the words of give, love, play, and thank you. Those four words, I think, are going to change the way that I show up, and I hope that they change the way that you show up as well.
So before we go, uh, uh, let me leave you with this. May you remember that your voice is your superpower. May you trust that the people who need what you have are looking for something only you can give. And when that voice inside your head starts whispering that you don't belong, may you remember Matt's four words.
Give, you are not here to control how people respond. You are here to contribute. Love, you are not here to win people over. You are here to care for them. Play, you are allowed to enjoy this. You are allowed to have fun. And thank you, may gratitude remind you of what a gift it is to get to do meaningful work in the first place.
Because when you show up fully as yourself with generosity and clarity and courage, your work becomes more than marketing or a message. It becomes an act of service. Because we believe you can be both ambitious and kind, fun and driven, powerful and deeply human. Your leadership can inspire, your success can have soul, and your ambition can make space for everyone.
That's why you're a badass softie. We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. Follow and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Badasssoftie.com is crafted by Fruitful Design & Strategy.